Shopsmith Forums

JPG wrote: ↑Mon Jan 16, 2023 9:24 am

steverboss wrote: ↑Mon Jan 16, 2023 12:08 am

JPG wrote: ↑Sun Jan 15, 2023 11:30 pm " I am totally turned off by a company that doesn’t do their marketing or reduce their production costs to bring their product into line with their competitors."

I simply do not understand that attitude.

Low volume of multiple variations = high costs = high price.

To say nothing about constant product improvement.


Not everything is high production = economy of scale.

That’s ok, it’s not necessary that you understand my attitude. It’s MY attitude, I’m the only one who needs to understand it. What if Shark Guard was $1000? Then you’d understand my attitude. We just have different price levels at which that attitude kicks in, get it now?

Thee totally missed the point.

It is often easy to miss your point JPG. Be specific. What point are you attempting to make?

Things are not about thee.

Yes sorta subtle.

I used a hole saw and modified a 520 upper guard to take a shop vac hose. It helps a little. I also found a plug to put in the hole so the guard can still be used with the hole in it. A far amount of dust escapes through the hole otherwise. Without going out to the shop I don't recall the hole size but it just fits within the width of the guard.

I also have the shark guard. Initial use was disappointing. I had plans to use a shop vac connected to the guard, and still wish I could. Just not enough airflow so it has to be connected to my dust collector. This means that I don't use it all the time but only when I have enough cutting to do that warrants the extra effort of setting it all up.

If someone wants a picture of my modified guard let me know. Like I said it helps some but my no means a great amount.

Ed

I use a 'Y' connection with my Shark Guard, It is a dedicated 'Y' set up. Two short pieces of hose with a 'Y' on one end. A straight connector for the lower saw guard and a 90° connector for the SG. One hose to the SG and the other one to the lower saw guard. Then a single hose to the DC, No effort at all. Hook up the hoses and go.

reible wrote: ↑Mon Jan 16, 2023 9:11 pm I used a hole saw and modified a 520 upper guard to take a shop vac hose. It helps a little. I also found a plug to put in the hole so the guard can still be used with the hole in it. A far amount of dust escapes through the hole otherwise. Without going out to the shop I don't recall the hole size but it just fits within the width of the guard.

I also have the shark guard. Initial use was disappointing. I had plans to use a shop vac connected to the guard, and still wish I could. Just not enough airflow so it has to be connected to my dust collector. This means that I don't use it all the time but only when I have enough cutting to do that warrants the extra effort of setting it all up.

If someone wants a picture of my modified guard let me know. Like I said it helps some but my no means a great amount.

Ed

Ed,

Thanks. I appreciate it. I guess you highlight the main reason I haven't purchased a Shark Guard yet...the efficacy question. I was wondering if a 2.5" port and a ShopVac would be enough to capture sufficient dust above the table. Sounds like it doesn't. Correct me if I am wrong, but it sounds like switching to a higher airflow via a dust collector, rather than a shop vacuum was only a marginal improvement with your Shark Guard. Is that a correct statement? I assume you have the 2.5" dust port Shark Guard model so you are likely limited in airflow due to that. I know Shark Guard sells a 3" and even a 4" model and it looks like they did a nice job of designing the adapter to pull from a much longer section on the top of the guard so it should have significantly more aperture area to maintain that airflow from a dust collector. IF I ever buy a Shark Guard one day, I guess I would have to do the 4" model to have better hopes of achieving a good dust capture from it. Still, I need to get a high airflow dust collector in my shop, which I don't have yet, so chicken & egg. Another area that concerns me about dust capture above table is that if I have to use a dust collector and connect a 4" hose above table it has to put a lot of noise right there in front of you. When I am doing woodworking, I go by what I can see and what I can feel, but also what I can hear to determine how the cut is doing so I don't like the idea of having so much dust collector noise right there in front of me to interfere with my senses. Thanks for the feedback.

Here is the link to the shark guard testing that I did:

viewtopic.php?t=21777

I have gone to using the guided saw system and not done much more on dust collection of the shopsmith. There sure is a difference between a system designed for dust collection and one that isn't really.

Ed

reible wrote: ↑Tue Jan 17, 2023 2:01 pm Here is the link to the shark guard testing that I did:

viewtopic.php?t=21777

I have gone to using the guided saw system and not done much more on dust collection of the shopsmith. There sure is a difference between a system designed for dust collection and one that isn't really.

Ed

Ed,

Thanks. I appreciate it and will review the thread. Yes, I am with you on dust collection. That is probably my #1 requirement on new tool purchases. After seeing it first hand on Festool equipment, I now seek out tools that put an emphasis on dust capture efficiency. Tools that are designed for this up front are definitely more of a pleasure to use in the shop IMHO.

Festool, being a European company, just puts more of an emphasis on this than other companies. Many homes, yards and streets are confined in Europe so there isn't the luxury for trades people to work out in the streets or yards on remodels like we have here in the US. This and European regulations on worker safety necessitate companies there to put greater emphasis on capturing as much of the dust as possible since they MUST often work inside the domicile during construction. I do believe other companies are paying greater attention to this now though, so Festool doesn't have a complete monopoly on this going forward.

SteveBboss did miss the poin - "That’s ok, it’s not necessary that you understand my attitude. It’s MY attitude, I’m the only one who needs to understand it. What if Shark Guard was $1000? Then you’d understand my attitude. We just have different price levels at which that attitude kicks in, get it now??

Reminds me of the days when if you said something negative about Chevy or Ford to someone who owned one they took it as a criticism of them, not Ford or GM. Times haven't changed so much after all.

Ed,

Okay, I got to reviewing your previous thread on the Shark Guard and watched all of the videos. As always, you did a thorough analysis. Thank you. It is appreciated. I think I understand your results and agree with your conclusions. I still see value in the Shark Guard, but not saying it is for everyone. Once you hooked it up to your big dust collector there was a significant reduction in above table dust spewing out during the cut from what I could tell. There was still some dust that escaped, but honestly I think this is about as good as you can get with most tablesaws with dust collection. I mean my Domino has next to no dust left behind after the cut but it is a different type of cut and more easy to contain and capture the dust because the tool to board interface confines it more...and Festool did a phenomenal job designing it. Also, I don't own a Kapex, but I believe even miter saw cuts with it still leave behind a bit of sawdust after, even with the excellent dust capture designed by Festool. In other words, it is the nature of the type of cut as I believe some power tool cuts are messier than others. I can't remember the numbers, but I believe the Festool Domino I once heard quoted as being capable of capturing 98% of all dust from it. I think the Kapex is in the 90's but like I said I can't remember the exact number. Hindsight is always 20/20 so the one caveat I would offer up on your experiments is we don't really know what your shop vacuum actual airflow was. Dust collectors and shop vacuums loose a lot of performance as the filter clogs up. I run mine with a cyclone in front and this greatly prolongs the life of the HEPA filter and better extends the performance across the life of the filter, i.e. airflow doesn't drop much from max performance vs. time. Not saying this was a problem for you, but just pointing out that potential customers of a Shark Guard could run into trouble with dust collection efficiency if they hookup a shop vacuum or DC-3300 to it and their filters get dirty (which doesn't take long). This alone could explain the observed differences between your dust collector (cyclone assumed) connected to the Shark Guard versus the shop vacuum case.

On that thread as well as on others, a myth continues to perpetuate regarding dust collection via a dust collector versus a shop vacuum, i.e. shop vacuum perceived as "bad" and dust collector as "good". Yes, dust collectors are optimized for a higher airflow and potentially lower suction and shop vacuums tend to have a higher suction and lower airflow. In my opinion, this misses the point. When you have LOTS of material to collect, e.g. big chips and a large quantity of dust particulate, like one would have with a jointer or planer then hands down a dust collector is superior to a vacuum. This is only because of the volume of material that needs to be collected. Put a big beefy jointer or planer on a vacuum with a small enough hose and it will choke on what needs to be collected causing it to backup in the dust chute of the tool. Shopsmith doesn't sell a 20" planer, and most of us are hobbyists (with hobbyist sized tools), so in my opinion this really isn't a problem for the amount of particulate that Shopsmith tools release. I have successfully used a ShopVac™ with a mini cyclone and HEPA filters with my Shopsmith equipment for several years now with NO problems. In fact it performs better than my DC-3300 ever did and this is even with the Shopsmith planer/jointer connected to it. For the upper saw guard, I believe it is all about getting as tight of a fit to the table as possible and keeping the airspeed inside the guard as high as possible to suck in any particulate. In fact, I believe collecting from the upper saw guard is more challenging because the collection airflow has to exceed the airspeed of dust particulate thrown off of the sawblade exiting the back of the table to capture on blade exit (up to 120MPH potentially) - otherwise it escapes out the back opening between table and saw guard. Typically a dust collector will have a higher airflow/airspeed than most shop vacuums, but you need as big of a port as you can get on that upper saw guard which is where the 4" model of the Shark Guard could be an advantage. Still, even with a 2.5" port I think you got very good results with your Shark Guard connected to your dust collector. The question, I think, is whether you could better optimize the Shark Guard with the 2.5" port to work with a good quality shop vacuum and/or the DC-3300. Could it be good enough with some tweaking? IF so, a dust collector might be overkill for the Shark Guard, but probably not given the speed of dust exiting the blade at the back of the table.

Honestly, most of the time I run no upper saw guard during rip cuts on my Mark V. The upper guard is too cumbersome to use with the Jessem Clear-Cut TS™ Stock Guides the majority of the time. The Shark Guard is even bigger than the Shopsmith guard. Unfortunately the Mark V main table & fence is just too small (not deep enough) to use the Shark Guard and the Jessem guides on it at the same time (unless it is a wide rip cut). For me to get the Shark Guard and use it I would need to give up my Jessem guides and get a big dust collector potentially. So, I will probably never get a Shark Guard for my shop unless I move one day and buy a cabinet tablesaw. Anyway, thanks again for your thoughts and analysis.

P.S. I'd be curious to see if your Festool CT26 with a 36mm hose would perform better with your Shark Guard compared to your shop vacuum.

RFGuy and others,

I've followed the Sharkguard discussion with interest because I have a Sharkguard and love it. As a couple of you have already mentioned, the Sharkguard probably works best with a 4" port connected to a DC. My setup pulls 735 CFM through the 4" Sharkguard and 292 CFM through the lower saw guard. Between the two ports I have very little dust -- just a little that leaks out of the lower saw guard -- and no dust above the table. If you have a DC I think you would really see the benefit of the Sharkguard. The guard bats down the dust and then the DC provides enough air to move the dust away.

-Erik