Why Didn't I Do This Before?

[reible]

Hi,

After thinking about this I recall some shopsmith tips about this subject... when to check and they seem to be missing.... as in removed. Or at least I couldn't find them at the tips page at Shopsmith.

I dug out the data sheet for the 6" drum sander (555948) and in big underlined text:
"Under NO CIRCUMSTANCES should this product be used as a thickness sander."

No doubt this was a safety issue. Maybe someone got hurt???

I was going to look at the current PTWFE to see if they still show the project and pictures...... The only one I have out right now is the one I got with my shopsmith back in 1976 and it is on page 271 in there. If someone has one or both of the copies done since then and wants to check????

Ed

[edflorence]

Hi all;

It is an interesting exercise to compare the various editions of PTWFE to each other, so I had look at the copies I have and here is what I found regarding the lathe-mounted "sanding drum":

The oldest copy I have is marked as published by Shopsmith, no date given, containing 324 pages. I think this must be the edition that accompanied the earliest Mark V's. On Page 271, in the chapter "Abrasive Machines" is an article and illustration of the drum sander.

The next oldest copy I have was published by Magna Publications of Menlo Park in 1955. This one contains 343 pages, and has, again on page 271 in the "Abrasive Machines" chapter, an illustrated article identical to the previous edition.

In 1967, Magna Publications of Raymond, Mississippi published a book called "Modern Power Tool Woodworking", which is a variant of the original PTWFE, adapted for the Mk VII model. This book is 352 pages long and has a slightly different article detailing the sander on page 285, again in a chapter called "Abrasive Machines."

The most recent edition I have is PTWFE, Revised Edition, published by Shopsmith of Dayton, OH in 1984. This book is 360 pages long and does not contain a chapter called "Abrasive Machines." But, on page 282 in the chapter called "Drum Sander", the sander shows up again. Figure 17-12 in that chapter illustrates what is now called the "Special Drum Sander."

I wonder if it is still included in the most recent PTWFE's?

Ed
Idaho Panhandle
MkV

[reible]

I went and dug out my latest and I think this is the current book from 1989 (4th edition). On page 228 is a picture of the drum sander and the plans along with a picture of it doing the exact same thing. But a warning is given about having the drum come off or the stock pulled from your hand and thrown if you try to remove more then 1/64" of material.

On the page before it show a 3" drum sander being used in the same way as the instuctions for the 6" one have a big X through and warning not to use that way.......

Has anyone purchased a new 3" drum sander in the last little while? If so could you look at the paper work and see if that has been updated to tell you not to do this??

Ed

[john]

The 1989 edition is the one I have and where I found this suggested application. I was wondering if this was the last edition as at almost twenty years old it is kind of dated although everything still applies. Now all I hasve to do is remember to refer to it every once in a while to improve my skills and take full advantage of the machines.

John

[greitz]

I purchased my 520 in Sept. 2004 and they included the 1989 (4th edition) of Power Tool Woodworking for Everyone, so I guess that's the latest version.

Ed- My copy does not have any X'ed-out stuff, it shows surface sanding using the 3" drum on page 227, and the full-size shop-made drum doing the same operation on wider material on page 228. No warnings other than not taking off more than 1/64" in a single pass, and don't stand in line with the stock. That last one's true, just ask my bruised tummy.

I bought the 3" drum sander last year. The paperwork included was a single photocopied sheet with terrible pictures- one was too light to see any detail and the other two were too dark. No warnings at all! Just a reference to see PTWFE for further info.

I used the 3" drum last week to surface sand some rings for a stacked-ring bowl glueup, and it worked fine. I would've liked to use the adjustable stop collar to fine-tune the table height, but couldn't figure out how to get the table low enough with that adjustable collar installed to sand the 3/4" rings. Unless I had that collar installed incorrectly, which is always possible. If anyone has a picture of that collar installed for this application, I'd like to see it.

Thanks for everybody's help, this forum is a fantastic resource!

Gary

[reible]

I purchased my 520 in Sept. 2004 and they included the 1989 (4th edition) of Power Tool Woodworking for Everyone, so I guess that's the latest version.

I checked the web page and yes that is the current one they are selling, and for those that don't have one.... GET ONE! Oh yes it is on sale right now so don't miss out.

Ed- My copy does not have any X'ed-out stuff, it shows surface sanding using the 3" drum on page 227, and the full-size shop-made drum doing the same operation on wider material on page 228. No warnings other than not taking off more than 1/64" in a single pass, and don't stand in line with the stock. That last one's true, just ask my bruised tummy.

Sorry about the confusion here.... the book does not have any X'ed out pictures but the sheet that came with the 6" sander does.

I bought the 3" drum sander last year. The paperwork included was a single photocopied sheet with terrible pictures- one was too light to see any detail and the other two were too dark. No warnings at all! Just a reference to see PTWFE for further info.

I have seen and complained about the useless pictures... take a copy of a copy of a copy out about 20 times and that is how bad they are... Then they reference fig. ## which looks like a black blob. For all the things they do right I guess I shouldn't complain but it does irk me.

I used the 3" drum last week to surface sand some rings for a stacked-ring bowl glueup, and it worked fine. I would've liked to use the adjustable stop collar to fine-tune the table height, but couldn't figure out how to get the table low enough with that adjustable collar installed to sand the 3/4" rings. Unless I had that collar installed incorrectly, which is always possible. If anyone has a picture of that collar installed for this application, I'd like to see it.

I hope to be in the shop this afternoon so I'll take a look at what you're asking about... Were you using the main table or the extension table??

Thanks for everybody's help, this forum is a fantastic resource!

Gary

The more I think about this the more unsafe it sounds...... Perhaps someone planning to use this method should give shopsmith a call and ask about what they think??? Or maybe NICK will stop by and give his take on this???

Ed

[edflorence]

Hi All

I checked the instruction sheet that came with my 3" drum (Part 505552). I don't recall when I purchased it, but the sheet says it was revised 10/81. As Greitz mentioned, it refers to PTWFE for more info, but interestingly, it also includes this sentence:

"the drum sander is very versatile and can be used for inside or outside curves, joint edging, thickness sanding, smoothing rabbet cuts, etc." (my italics.)

Ed, you say:

The more I think about this the more unsafe it sounds...... Perhaps someone planning to use this method should give shopsmith a call and ask about what they think??? Or maybe NICK will stop by and give his take on this???

Ed

I am as safety conscious as the next guy, and when it comes to the question of using saw guards maybe even more so. But, I am unclear why you believe using the drum to surface sand presents a safety issue? It just doesn't strike me as an unsafe procedure. Sure, kickback is a possibility, but that is true of every machine that presents a spinning or rotating workpiece or tool. What is it that seems unsafe to you?

This has turned into an interesting thread!

Ed
Idaho Panhandle
MkV 500

[reible]

Hi,

As in all woodworking one can only look at the operation involved and hope to find a safe way of doing the job... if it is not safe then one should not be doing it, right?

In any case where you trap wood between the "cutter" and a fixed table you have the potential for kick-back. In this case that is what you are doing so what is the safe way to prevent it (the kick-back)?

The pictures in the book show a push stick being used but if the wood comes back with much force that is not going to prevent it. We also know that kick back happens (right Gary?) So in looking at the pictures in the book, thinking about it, thinking of my experences and how safe I would feel doing that operation at this point in my life.... it just doesn't look that safe.

Can you make it safe? You might make a sled, it would/could that be a safer way??? Maybe some reading this has put a great deal more effort into this and could let us know what they think and or do??

What is also interesting is that the references to doing this seem to have been taken out of the tips pages at shopsmith (unless someone else can find them??? I do miss things now and again), the 6" drum sander has a major warning not to do this (paper work dated 03/04) so now I begin to question if shopsmith has altered they position on the thickness sanding operations shown in the book?

Ed

[reible]

OK I'm back in from some shoptime and having looked at the adj. stop collar use with the 520 for this sanding use....... sorry it just isn't going to work, even with the collar adjusted for minimum height the table is higher then the business end of the sander.

On the extension table (at least the way mine is) you might be able to sand paper if it is thin paper...

So this looks like a non option on the 520. I don't have a 500/505/510 to check this on but maybe someone else can do that for us.

Since pictures are most often the clearest way to show things I have a few for you to look at:
http://new.photos.yahoo.com/elv60504@sb ... 2393861713

Click on the image to make it larger.

Ed

[charlese]

Here is the setup for the stop collar in order to use a homemade drum sander:
[ATTACH]108[/ATTACH]
Here's the Story: I had never used the stop collar on this homemade drum, before I mentioned it's use in this thread. The Stop Collar came out long after I had given up the use of the drum. The Problem causing me to give up it's use was my inability to adjust the table height accurately enough to sand only a small amount. I could surface sand with it, but could not manage to adjust the table with enough accuracy to thickness sand and even adjusting for surfacing was tough!

So I thought the stop collar would be just the ticket for accuracy in table adjustment. (once again - hadn't used it yet!) When I saw your posts, I knew just what the problem was. I had run into the collar placement problem earlier - when using the stop collar for accuracy in drilling/routing/shaping on the SS.

So after reading your posts I went and tried out my brainstorm. Succeded in sanding a 12" by 16" piece of oak 3/4" thick to 7/16" thick . Why? No reason - just wanted to see if the thing worked any better with the stop collar. The answer is yes - it is much more controllable! However I still come out with some chatter marks and loads of sawdust. (more on that later). The "hard pushing problem" and the kick back problem can be virtulally eliminated by adjusting the stop collar only 1/8 turn between sanding passes. Still it took me 5 passes at each setting to be sure I could move on to the next setting. (SLOW WORK)

The trick to using the stop collar here is to put it BELOW the carriage. You have to put the locking ring of the collar toward the bottom so you can screw the device up and down.

1st put your workpiece between the sanding drum and the table and raise the table until wood and drum touch. Lock it the normal way using the table height lock. Then put the collar on the worktable shaft. Once you get the collar in place make sure it is at least 1/2" below the carriaige and you have the collar widended up about a 1/2". You need some room to adjust. Turn the movable part of the collar up to the carriage. Loosen the "Table height lock" while holding onto the Wheel. Maintaining upward pressure on the crank and crank handle - turn the collar upward a couple of turns (which will lower the table) - You will quickly see light between your workpiece and the sanding drum. Move the workpiece through the system (BACK OF THE TABLE TO THE FRONT If this passes through with no touching then it's time to raise the worktable.

Here's how:
Loosen the table lock and while holding onto the crank and crank handle with upward pressure turn the stop collar down 1/4 turn. Lock the table in this position and pass the workiece through again. If it touches - it is now time to plug in the SS, make sure it is on low speed and push the workpiece through from the back of the table to the front. I used push blocks you see in the picture (almost) (SS part518220). In this proceedure - try to keep your turns on the stop collar to less than 1/4 turn. REMEMBER - Downward turns on the collar mean raising the table!!

Here are the issues I ran into: The workpiece needs to be held downward firmly to avoid chatter and "planing" marks. There is a need for dust collection mounted near the worktable. I couldnt turn the stop collar more than 1/4 turn downward and still be able to easily control the workpiece. This is only a sixty fouth of an inch! Wow! Maybe I shuldn't have been using 100 grit! I ran into a big mess of sawdust - MY FAULT! in my hurry to remove yesterday's set up and remove the sawtable I set the dust collector hose on the floor. Then when walking over to get the lathe parts I inadvertently steped on the dust collector floor switch. This is not normally a problem, but today I sucked in a small cuttof and bang! there went the fan!

Gotta go now and get out the shop vac to clean up the mess.

Yes! replacement fan blade is ordered.