David,DLB wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2024 1:59 pm That's an enlightening description. I suspect that only a Festool Domino user would or could describe loose tenon joinery this way. 'Loose tenon' to me does not imply slot mortises nor tenons bought in a bag (or whatever), though it includes both. So to me it is an M&T joint that requires twice as many mortises. It seems to me that the Festool Domino has redefined loose tenon joinery. If we exclude dowels and biscuits from our definition of loose tenons, then I as a non-Domino guy make few loose tenon joints. If we further reduce our definition to exclude all tenons that don't match L, W, and D of Dominoes then I have likely made zero lifetime. Clearly, I don't need an expensive tool for that. What I think Festool seeks to do is change woodworking by promoting the use of loose tenons of those specific dimensions along with the tools for the mortises that fit them. So a Festool Domino user might use 40 or 100 loose tenon joints in a single project in which I would use none, but 40 or 100 dowels and/or biscuits. It took me a while, but I see the value in the Festool Domino system. I also see the price point as potentially prohibitive for many woodworkers even if they build, or want to build, projects that benefit from the system.
- David
Thanks. I only excluded biscuits and dowels in so far as that they are often talked about separately from other joinery types in woodworking circles. In principle, you are exactly right in that biscuits and dowels are a means of loose tenon joinery. ONLY the Festool Domino and dowels offer the ability to have precise horizontal & vertical alignment of two workpieces, whereas biscuits can sometimes shift on glue-up in the horizontal axis. When I think of these, only the Festool Domino gives something similar to the original M&T, i.e. something that looks like a rectangular tenon sticking out. Of course, it isn't very thick, so maybe I am splitting hairs here...I don't know. Biscuit joinery is fast, like the Domino, but also requires special purchase tenons (biscuits). Honestly, I don't mind this because I can buy preset sizes, but in theory could make my own if inclined to. A good biscuit jointer is on the order of $200, but some woodworkers own the Lamello Zeta P2 which is $1.5k. Those who own one swear by them and the company makes some nice KD (knock-down) fittings to use in those biscuit slots should you need this. I used a DeWalt corded biscuit jointer for years, but honestly I was never thrilled with it. Maybe I just got a bad one. I saw a Steve Ramsey YT vid, or maybe it was Stumpy Nubbs that discussed biscuit jointers and they pointed out that some of these biscuit jointers do a poor job of creating that slot (mortise) leaving too much slop, so I admit that maybe my negative opinion of biscuits today is a reflection that I just had a bad biscuit jointer that I owned in my shop. Either way, biscuits don't give the same kind of precise horizontal and vertical alignment on glue-up that you get with M&T, dowels and the Festool Domino. Getting back to the speed question. I am sure in production settings, there are machines that quickly cut repetitive dowel mortises, so perhaps ALL loose tenon joinery was intended to be fast - I am sure someone knows the history of this in woodworking? Then again, I may be delusional asserting that loose tenons joinery is ALL about speed and they were common in the 1800's using common hand tools. At least in 2024, the benefit I see of loose tenon joinery that I see in biscuits or the Festool Domino for the home shop woodworker or professional are the speed of creating this joint. I would need something like this (https://www.woodpeck.com/multi-router-m ... ckage.html) to quickly make M&T's, but it still isn't as quick as the Festool Domino and I can't afford that as a home shop woodworker. Nowhere near as fast though you can buy a mortiser and cut the tenon shoulders on a bandsaw/TS. Having said all of this, the fastest and best loose tenon joinery method I know is the Festool Domino, but it VERY expensive. IF speed is no concern then use whatever joinery method suits you. I am really NOT trying to talk anyone into buying the Festool Domino, but having owned one now I LOVE it. It is fun to use and makes me more efficient in the time that I use in the shop. Isn't it all about having fun in the shop???
RF Guy