One Year Update - Scott Markwood interviews Nick Cupps

[edflorence]

Not all the time, but often I leave my jointer on the end of my Mark V. I don't want to have to move it just to go to drill press mode. It is just too inconvenient for me in my small shop.

I haven't watched the video yet, but plan to as soon as I chime in on RF Guy's point. I agree 100% that the jointer is just too cumbersome to store on a shelf and then lug over to the SS when you need it. The solution for me was to get a shorty and have the motor re-wired so it can run in both directions. The bandsaw lives permanently on one end of the shorty and the jointer on the other. I haven't lifted either off their mounts in years. It would be nice if SS offered a shorty like this with a "conventional" headstock with a reversing motor just for this purpose. I know this configuration is getting dangerously close to being a "stand alone" tool, but it is really convenient.

[JPG]

Did I hear correctly - belt covers are a pacing item in the supply chain? Belt covers??? If I did hear that - why is that an issue? Does no one press metal anymore. I think I heard Nick say something about not being able to find a vendor "in the area". If so, how about looking far and wide?

I guess I better spend the time to view this thread/post again.

The belt cover is a deep draw item. Their previous supplier only had two customers and the press broke and they are not going to fix it.

Nick's point was that that was an old technology process that few are still doing - hence the problem getting them made in the future.

[chapmanruss]

I watched the video yesterday but had errands to run so here is my input. First off thank you Scott for doing this interview and bringing us up to date on where Shopsmith is today. Thanks to John for posting the link. Some of the takeaways I got from the interview are the need for profitability being number one. Offering tools, new and old, that can produce income for the company. There were others and get to some of that. Without the ability to grow and be profitable the company will cease. I think that is an important thing to remember. Something that I believe is going to happen is less "Legacy" as it was described for owners of older equipment having repair/replacement parts choices. Will the Power Pro Headstock with a lower top end speed as discussed as a possibility replace the Conventional Headstock in the future? If it happens will "Legacy" owners be forced to upgrade if their old headstock needs parts like owners of discontinued Table Systems must do if they want new replacement parts from the factory or go to the used market. Something I learned and I believe one of the big pluses in buying and owning a Shopsmith tool is that over the years anything done to improve or upgrade the Mark V platform and the SPTs has been able to be added to the older tools and not leave them behind. This history is a big selling point for anyone looking to invest in a tool system like the Shopsmith.

As for Routing and Shaping using the Shopsmith Mark V or Mark 7, I have mixed feelings about that. I have done it successfully but if I was doing more Routing or Shaping, I would look for a higher speed alternative. This also relates to the Double Tilt questions. Not using the Mark for under table operations there is no need to have the Double Tilt and therefor giving back that storage of your most used SPT to stay on the Mark. Another issue having the Double Tilt is the Lift Assist which has to be disconnected for tilting to under table functions.

One thing mentioned was SPT storage and Scott brought up the Accessory Stand. As said bringing back this would first need a large enough demand for it. Again, profitability. I own an Accessory Stand and like it, but it wasn't my first STP and accessory storage I had. After getting my Shopsmith Mark V 520 and the Jig Saw, Jointer and Belt Sander I needed a place to store the SPTs and accessories together. I made a stand similar to one I had seen the plans for. It was actually one of the first things I built using the Mark V. It is on wheels like most of the Shopsmith tools and storage in my shop which means I can move it close to the Mark to put an SPT on or off of it more easily. My shop now is a pole barn and wall space for mounting things is almost non-existent. One reason I don't have shelves for storing the SPTs. Before moving last year, my shop was our oversized garage (30' w x 36' d) but by the time I got my first Shopsmith I already had a lot of base and wall cabinets, so the cart was a good storage idea even then. I mention that because something that works for one person may not work for another. For a small garage where the Mark is going to be stored against a wall the SPT storage shelves are a great idea.

There were other takeaways from the interview I caught but I think I will rewatch the video first. Some have already been mentioned by others here.

[RFGuy]

Russ,

Yeah, I got the same takeaway on the interview. Though he didn't say it explicitly, I assume he means he ponders if offering a 5,000 RPM max speed Mark xxx model (PowerPro or maybe NOT so PRO assumed) at a lower price point would be worth doing. It does seem like the conventional headstock is out, which is a shame IMHO. I really don't see how a new lower performance PowerPro will work. In other words, I don't think Teknatool is going to lower their price on the motor for him because you still need the same basic design for 5,000 or 10,000 RPM. However, the rest of the drivetrain inside the headstock could, in theory, be slightly lower quality to reduce price. Again, I don't think the suppliers to Shopsmith are going to cut him any significant breaks for this either. It seemed more like a platitude, but with little actual substance behind it IMHO. It does seem silly that Shopsmith can't continue to offer relatively little overhead accessories like the SPT stand to keep customers happy. Yes, I get that the planer wasn't profitable. For the SPT stand, we are talking about components that are almost all in inventory. For the top, have a line worker operate a brake for maybe 2 minutes to bend the steel. Heck, change the design if need be and have a supplier make a painted MFT top instead. IF the quantities are small, and they probably are for many of the add-ons for Shopsmith ,then there should be a price point that justifies continuing to offer it that can be acceptable to both company and customer. I believe they are just simplifying to simplify because they are bleeding in so many areas. Personally, I have the SPT storage cart and love it. I had just purchased my first home and one bay of the garage was to be my wood shop so I was starting from scratch when I bought most of my Shopsmith equipment. Yes, I could have built my own storage stand, storage wall, etc., etc., but it was about getting the dang tools up and off the floor and readily accessible for me quickly back then. Allowed me to hit the ground running so to speak and it is a compact design that looks nice and matches the paint scheme of my Mark V. Yes, not every owner is going to want one of these, but I believe it was these extras, these add-ons and especially all of the SPT's that made Shopsmith special. I have to ask in 2024 if there are enough of these "bits" left that a new customer that discovers Shopsmith "gets it", or if they just keep on scanning the marketplace leading them to purchase something else entirely. This is one part of the business that I don't think Nick gets, i.e. Shopsmith used to be a system/platform. It wasn't just one 5-in-1 tool, but it was a 5-in-1 tool that you could add a bandsaw to, a jointer to, a planer to, a scroll saw to, a die grinder to, a belt sander to, etc., etc. This meant that the Mark V was essential and once a customer was on the platform, they were on the platform. Significantly cutting back on what is offered both as SPT's and accessories greatly reduces the appeal of this platform/system or whatever you want to call it. In short, purchasing a new Mark 7 in 2024 is less special than it was for purchasing my Mark V almost 25 years before. Few things have a PTO (power take off), tractors and professional kitchen mixers come to mind. Once you own that tractor or stand mixer, you aren't buying another one for a very long time typically, but the manufacturer can sell as many add-ons that use that PTO as they can dream up. This was the power of the Mark V, so if we are dropping SPT's then I have to ask, why even have a PTO on the Mark 7? Perhaps that lower cost Mark xxx should just abandon the PTO and save cost that way. Those who sell tractors know that durability and reliability are paramount so they make money on repairs, on selling new accessories and of course on repeat customers, i.e. when a farmer needs a new/additional tractor. To me, in cutting out the conventional headstock, Shopsmith seems to be shooting themselves in the foot and breaking their long standing business model. I guess time will tell if this new business model can be successful for them or not.

I hope they succeed, but....I wonder about their choices.

[HopefulSSer]

To me, in cutting out the conventional headstock, Shopsmith seems to be shooting themselves in the foot and breaking their long standing business model.

Agreed. If indeed he's considering a lower-cost model, then foregoing the expensive powerpro headstock in favor of the conventional headstock seems like a no-brainer. However, I wonder if they might also have a tooling or manufacturing problem with the mechanical headstock? He mentioned that they're having problems finding someone who can do the deep-draw stamping for some of the sheet metal parts. Perhaps they're also having some sort of issue with tooling or supplier that prevents them making the mechanical headstocks, and they don't have the money to fix it?

[edma194]

To me, in cutting out the conventional headstock, Shopsmith seems to be shooting themselves in the foot and breaking their long standing business model.

Agreed. If indeed he's considering a lower-cost model, then foregoing the expensive powerpro headstock in favor of the conventional headstock seems like a no-brainer. However, I wonder if they might also have a tooling or manufacturing problem with the mechanical headstock? He mentioned that they're having problems finding someone who can do the deep-draw stamping for some of the sheet metal parts. Perhaps they're also having some sort of issue with tooling or supplier that prevents them making the mechanical headstocks, and they don't have the money to fix it?

Look at all the custom parts in a conventional headstock. Getting those parts made and keeping them in stock is costly. I think they should to continue supplying the custom parts for owners of existing machines but it also costs them to be assembling conventional headstocks for sale. However, without lowering the cost of a PowerPro then they may be in a bind in the entry price of new machines.

[HopefulSSer]

True there are a lot of custom parts but all that tooling was paid for decades ago. And the conventional headstock s aren't hard to assemble, esp if the assembler has been doing it on a production line and has it down pat.

[JPG]

Paid for tooling that is viable only it it does not break. He mentioned that has been happening to provide daily "challenges"!

[HopefulSSer]

Paid for tooling that is viable only it it does not break. He mentioned that has been happening to provide daily "challenges"!

...which I alluded to in my post upthread. But he has not specifically said that manufacturing issues are what caused the decision to drop the mechanical headstock, hence my speculation above. And my suggestion in my second post that the complexity and/or assembly labor are NOT the cause of that decision

[JPG]

Yup. My perception is that I think he has a negative attitude re a 50+ year old design. Also it is noisy compared to most power tools.(i.e. sounds clunky) However I agree he has missed the point re system platform that RFGuy has mentioned. He also misses the point that legacy support is what made the SS unique and the long term value of that. Yes it adds to the supply chain/warehousing issues.

Regardless he has to be profitable to survive. Hope he finds a path acceptable to all concerned.