Shopsmith Forums

AMEN Foxtrapper! I agreee that sometimes extreme accuracy may be needed, but, for the most part, and due to the nature of wood, its not always necessary to split the atom.

Ashbury

mickyd wrote:This is probably a good time to discuss WHEN this type of accuracy IS needed.

I have been around the block, a couple different times on this forum, about extreme accuracy when wood working. I have given ground but then have taken some of it back.

I believe that my projects should all be put together with the greatest degree of accuracy that I am able to achieve and then must allow nature to take its coarse. If the wood alters that success...so be it.

I have convinced myself that with proper care I can cut most all of my wood working pieces to within a 1/32" (.03") of their prescribed dimension. I used to readily accept 1/16" as close enough (for government work). This was done while rationalizing that the Shopsmith was not capable of better and that is absolutely wrong.

Rick Davis convinced me that he is capable of even tighter tolerances with the Mark V and his cadre of Shopsmith accessories.

When is this level of extreme accuracy necessary? Absolutely never unless I (you) want it to be! Someone commissioned to do wood working probably can not take that position but then I don't get paid to work for others anymore.

mickyd wrote:How come you say it's not perfect Ed. I was going to pick one up tonight but now wonder what you might be seeing as issues?

Mickyd
There is no issue that I have found but some people seem amused that it tells the temp so I added that caveat. I like mine and would definitely buy it again. To me is far more useful than the Wixey or Beal units that I see serving only one purpose.

foxtrapper wrote:Now this is a good example of the obsession with accuracy where it's not needed. Previously, we'd all use a liquid level and be quite happy when the bubble was between the two tick marks on the glass tube. Now, with this digital level one can get all worked up over the floor being 0.3 degrees off plumb.

I'm not saying its not nifty, or that there aren't times for this kind of detail. But most of the time it's not needed and just creates anxiety without any good purpose.

foxtrapper
I bought my unit not for the accuracy, not for the bells or whistles.

I bought mine so I don't have to kneel down tilt my head back at a funny angle to try to read the bevel tilt angle.

I wear progressive (bi focal) glasses and to read I must read through the lower part of the glass. With the new 520 fence rails you have to look up under the rail to see the bevel scale. To do this with my glasses I literally have to kneel on the floor, skinny up to the machine, tilt my head back until the lower part of the glasses are on the gauge.

My wife came out in the garage the other day and saw me down setting the table angle and I thought she was going to hurt herself laughing at me. I'm fairly long in the body to so get my head low enough to see under the fence rail at the right angle to see bevel gauge I have to contort my upper body in a rather humorous way.

With this new guage I set it on the table and tilt the table to the angle I want. I can see it clearly, it is luminated which is even better and the process keeps me off my knees on the concrete floor.

If your young you will have no appreciation for that, but let me assure you unless you age far more gracefully than 99 percent of us you will understand it one day.

foxtrapper wrote:. . . Now, with this digital level one can get all worked up over the floor being 0.3 degrees off plumb.
. . .

I hope my floors are 90° out of PLUMB!:D

Ed in Tampa wrote:foxtrapper
. . .

I wear progressive (bi focal) glasses and to read I must read through the lower part of the glass. With the new 520 fence rails you have to look up under the rail to see the bevel scale. To do this with my glasses I literally have to kneel on the floor, skinny up to the machine, tilt my head back until the lower part of the glasses are on the gauge.

My wife came out in the garage the other day and saw me down setting the table angle and I thought she was going to hurt herself laughing at me. I'm fairly long in the body to so get my head low enough to see under the fence rail at the right angle to see bevel gauge I have to contort my upper body in a rather humorous way.

. . .

This is why I have 'electricians/mechanics' 'safety glasses. They have a 'closeup' focal length at the TOP of the lense as well as 'reading' at the bottom. I remember one day when on a 'railroad' trip for my kids the conductor trying to adjust the PA which was on a shelf above his head. He could not tilt his head back far enough to see what he was doing. From that moment forward I have been critical of the 'eyeglass' business. Most folks NEED a 'tri/bifocal' area at the top for medium distances. This is especially true now that computers are so prevalent.

JPG40504 wrote:This is why I have 'electricians/mechanics' 'safety glasses. They have a 'closeup' focal length at the TOP of the lense as well as 'reading' at the bottom..................

And where do you buy the glasses?

mickyd wrote:And where do you buy the glasses?

An optician would be a good place to go. A REAL optical business, NOT the likes of 'DR Bizer' or other mass marketing purveyers. The key word there is 'SAFETY' glasses. They Ain't cheap! If you want exactly what you 'need' they will probably only be available in glass($$$$$$$$$$).

JPG40504 wrote:This is why I have 'electricians/mechanics' 'safety glasses. They have a 'closeup' focal length at the TOP of the lense as well as 'reading' at the bottom. I remember one day when on a 'railroad' trip for my kids the conductor trying to adjust the PA which was on a shelf above his head. He could not tilt his head back far enough to see what he was doing. From that moment forward I have been critical of the 'eyeglass' business. Most folks NEED a 'tri/bifocal' area at the top for medium distances. This is especially true now that computers are so prevalent.

JPG40504
I have seen the type of glasses you mentioned used in Computer operation centers where operators have screens setting at multiple levels to monitor.

Actually my progressive lenses work well in most circumstances but with the new Fence Rails of the 520 you actually have to read the scale from below, at an angle since itis almost up behind the Fence rail.

Actually the idea of the digital angle gauge that I can read from normal position would appeal to me even it I didn't wear glasses. I will take advantage of the additional accuracy but my main purpose in buying this was convenience.

Also I learned a lesson recently. I installed a door and the first thing I did was checked the bottom threshold for level. Expecting it to be level I put the level on it and sure enough it was level. I never questioned it. I then set the door in place and for the life of me I could not get the door in right. I shimmed and reshimmed and finally I took it out and was ready to call in a pro. There was something I was missing.

Before I did call for help I decided to take one more try starting at step one. I cleaned up all the weather seal/caulk off the door, the jam, took the door out completely making sure all the shipping supports were back in place (to insure the door hadn't racked and etc). There I was at step 1. I almost skipped it but caught myself. This time when I checked the bottom threshold again. Whats that?? The Bubble is off?? Yes I missed the threshold being about an 1/8" per foot out. On the bubble level I was using it little more than the bubble closer to one line than the other. On the 3 foot door I needed to shim the hinge side 3/8". Once I did this the door slipped in and squared up perfectly.

The first thing I did when I got this new tool was checked my door threshold. I was able to put in on the original surface and in an instant I saw the threshold was off and the door threshold needed to be shimmed. It was a number that I couldn't ignore or miss read.

I don't know exactly how I missed the problem with my spirit level the first time but I did and I think it was a combination of things. First I had just removed a door from the opening and there were not shims that I saw so I assumed the floor was level. Second the bubble evidently looked close from the angle I was viewing it. I really don't know but I missed it being out of level and hours of time.

Yes I have installed a few doors in my life, rough guess 30 or so.

So, did it say 0.6 °? All that trouble, and is was a 'prehung' door being 'installed'!:D