So I guess I should ask which machine you are working on. The photo is for the 510 and the updated fence... are you by chance running on a 500?
Thanks for the welcome to the group. I'm looking forward to learning and contributing!
Yes, I am on a 500 and in looking at some of the other posts and links I think that is my problem. The table size on the 500 is narrower and therefore the miter gauge is much closer to the quill than on the 510. I woke up at 5am today thinking about the problem and it appears I am going to need to get clever to solve this problem. One of the other posters suggested a sled affair which I have not researched yet but has my interest.
z-man wrote:
What am I missing? How does the feather board interfere with the 'pistol grip'?
P.S. there should be no difference between a 500 or 505..520. The size difference is mostly on the side away from the headstock.
I'll take a picture today and reply to you. The size on the 500 is much smaller than the 510 that is pictured in the online guides I have seen - the pistol is therefore VERY close to the shaper and the fence and in fact clears it only by about 1/4 inch.
JPG40504 wrote:As Ed has brought up, the shaper fences are different and mount differently.
However these differences are not such as to cause the interference alluded to. For all intents and purposes they result in the shaper fence being located in the same position relative to the quill.
The 500 shaper fence is longer so as to enable clamping it around the front and back edge of the main table. The 5xx shaper fence mounts to the main table by two bolts running through the shaper fence and the main table. The 5xx shaper fence has slotted holes which allow some in/out positioning adjustment. The 500 shaper fence can be moved in/out along the front and back edge of the main table.
The 'throat' area(where the shaper cutters are positioned) is identical. The fence halves are identical. Although the 5xx has knobs to adjust both fence halves(in/out) the 500 is also adjustable(but the outfeed fence requires manual positioning).
Normally the table is positioned under the quill and the shaper fence positioned to the quill also. Both versions may be positioned the same position from the quill(cutter).
Another thought I just had from listening to all of this great chatter is that maybe I am positioning the table all wrong? I've got the cutters positioned in the center of the hole in the table or maybe even closer to the "front" of the hole and therefore the fence is close to the miter gauge slot. If I position it more to the back of the hole maybe then the feather board will fit in between the miter gauge and the fence? I'll try it. I don't think this solves the original problem, but it at least will solve a puzzle and possibly make things simpler.
z-man wrote:Another thought I just had from listening to all of this great chatter is that maybe I am positioning the table all wrong? I've got the cutters positioned in the center of the hole in the table or maybe even closer to the "front" of the hole and therefore the fence is close to the miter gauge slot. If I position it more to the back of the hole maybe then the feather board will fit in between the miter gauge and the fence? I'll try it. I don't think this solves the original problem, but it at least will solve a puzzle and possibly make things simpler.
The shaper cutter should be centered over the hole/slot in the table insert. The throat of the shaper fence should be centered on the cutter also.
There is no difference in the distance from the miter gauge slot(s) to the table insert on the 500/5xx tables. The 'extra' 5xx width is about 1/2" on the 'left' side (closest to the way tubes when vertical) and the rest on the opposite side. <<<<I remeasured - NO difference on left side!!!!!
One thing I am not clear on is what is the feather board attached to in your setup?
The Miter gauge IS about 1" from the center of the table insert. The shaper fence should be on the other side(nearer to the way tubes) of the table insert.
╔═══╗
╟JPG ╢
╚═══╝
Goldie(Bought New SN 377425)/4" jointer/6" beltsander/12" planer/stripsander/bandsaw/powerstation /Scroll saw/Jig saw /Craftsman 10" ras/Craftsman 6" thicknessplaner/ Dayton10"tablesaw(restoredfromneighborstrashpile)/ Mark VII restoration in 'progress'/ 10E[/size](SN E3779) restoration in progress, a 510 on the back burner and a growing pile of items to be eventually returned to useful life. - aka Red Grange
JPG40504 wrote:The shaper cutter should be centered over the hole/slot in the table insert. The throat of the shaper fence should be centered on the cutter also.
There is no difference in the distance from the miter gauge slot(s) to the table insert on the 500/5xx tables. The 'extra' 5xx width is about 1/2" on the 'left' side (closest to the way tubes when vertical) and the rest on the opposite side.
One thing I am not clear on is what is the feather board attached to in your setup?
A picture is worth many, many words. This one depicts the shaper fence and the accessories along with a not-so-good picture of the featherboard in discussion.
I am unable to find the feather board assembly (as an individual item) in the Shopsmith documentation. The only reference that I have found is that in a first link above.
While looking, though, I did find this article of interest:
dusty wrote:A picture is worth many, many words. This one depicts the shaper fence and the accessories along with a not-so-good picture of the featherboard in discussion.
I am unable to find the feather board assembly (as an individual item) in the Shopsmith documentation. The only reference that I have found is that in a first link above.
While looking, though, I did find this article of interest:
Goldie(Bought New SN 377425)/4" jointer/6" beltsander/12" planer/stripsander/bandsaw/powerstation /Scroll saw/Jig saw /Craftsman 10" ras/Craftsman 6" thicknessplaner/ Dayton10"tablesaw(restoredfromneighborstrashpile)/ Mark VII restoration in 'progress'/ 10E[/size](SN E3779) restoration in progress, a 510 on the back burner and a growing pile of items to be eventually returned to useful life. - aka Red Grange
Thank you, JPG but my search was for the part number of the shaper fence "featherboard assembly" and I do not see it being listed separately though I truly believe it can be purchased separately.
I have one but I was sorta reading between the lines and suspect that z-man does not and was going to want to purchase one. Maybe I should just go back to "superficial logic" and wait for a direct request.
"Making Sawdust Safely" Dusty
Sent from my Dell XPS using Firefox.
I believe it is time for some diagnosis here. I suggest putting some pencil marks on the table at the bottom of the face of the fences and on the stock at the outside edge of the miter gauge. As you finish the pass, note any changes in the locations of the stock/fence faces in relation to the marks. That should point you to the problem.
jimthej wrote:I believe it is time for some diagnosis here. I suggest putting some pencil marks on the table at the bottom of the face of the fences and on the stock at the outside edge of the miter gauge. As you finish the pass, note any changes in the locations of the stock/fence faces in relation to the marks. That should point you to the problem.
As is usual on this Forum, a thread will sometimes(usually when we are 'groping' for answers/understanding) take off in a direction other than that in the original post.
You have addressed the original 'problem' directly. I believe we all think the workpiece is moving during the shaping operation. If the workpiece is 'moving out' your marks will indicate that.
However we are also looking for a way to prevent that movement, and in order to better understand what is happening, we diverge from the original post in an attempt to better understand it. In the process we share our information with each other and we all learn from it. In this case those who only have one of the main table versions learn what some of those differences are. That is useful for future understanding of 'new' problems brought up. Sometimes we get way too far from the original 'problem' but I do not think so in this case.
Z-man introduced a new 'puzzle' in a later post when he referred to the pistol grip interferring with the featherboard. This 'new' branch is still not totally defined/understood(by me anyway).
╔═══╗
╟JPG ╢
╚═══╝
Goldie(Bought New SN 377425)/4" jointer/6" beltsander/12" planer/stripsander/bandsaw/powerstation /Scroll saw/Jig saw /Craftsman 10" ras/Craftsman 6" thicknessplaner/ Dayton10"tablesaw(restoredfromneighborstrashpile)/ Mark VII restoration in 'progress'/ 10E[/size](SN E3779) restoration in progress, a 510 on the back burner and a growing pile of items to be eventually returned to useful life. - aka Red Grange
I have experienced exactly the same problems that z-man is describing with my shaper fence setup. I have a 510, so it should set up like the pictures in PTWFE, but it doesn't. I have a 510/520/Speed increaser fence.
When using the miter gauge for end graining, I have never been able to use the feather board in the fully down position to contact the wood as shown in the PTWFE reference. The feather board keeps hitting the miter gauge, preventing me from pushing the miter gauge through.
When using my miter gauge with the safety grip, my holddown has about an inch of sideways play where it contacts the workpiece. So, as the end grain touches the cutter, the wood slides away because the holddown slips sideways. This leads to the cut at the beginning being deeper than the cut as the end of the piece.
