Motor Replacement on Mark V

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robinson46176
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Post by robinson46176 »

Remember the next two sentences. :)
1. Always begin at the beginning...
2. The capacitor is NOT the beginning...
First you need to be sure you have power. You have done that here by flipping it on and having a hum. It is OK if you hum but never allow a motor to hum. It really messes them up. Flip it off quick.
"ALWAYS" suspect the centrifugal starter switch first once you know that you have power to the motor. See Bill Mayo's comment above about a mallet and compressed air.
If it is good only then suspect the capacitor. See Bill Mayo's 7 years comment above.
It would be well if Shopsmith started sending out decals to all owners to be placed near everyone's on-off switch that said "It probably is not the capacitor"...
Maybe there should be a header that pops up on each page here that says "It probably is not the capacitor"...
:)
--
farmer
Francis Robinson
I did not equip with Shopsmiths in spite of the setups but because of them.
1 1988 - Mark V 510 (bought new), 4 Poly vee 1 1/8th HP Mark V's, Mark VII, 1 Mark V Mini, 1 Frankensmith, 1 10-ER, 1 Mark V Push-me-Pull-me Drillpress, SS bandsaw, belt sander, jointer, jigsaw, shaper attach, mortising attach, TS-3650 Rigid tablesaw, RAS, 6" long bed jointer, Foley/Belsaw Planer/molder/ripsaw, 1" sander, oscillating spindle/belt sander, Scroll saw, Woodmizer sawmill
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robinson46176
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Post by robinson46176 »

robinson46176 wrote:Remember the next two sentences. :)
1. Always begin at the beginning...
2. The capacitor is NOT the beginning...
First you need to be sure you have power. You have done that here by flipping it on and having a hum. It is OK if you hum but never allow a motor to hum. It really messes them up. Flip it off quick.
"ALWAYS" suspect the centrifugal starter switch first once you know that you have power to the motor. See Bill Mayo's comment above about a mallet and compressed air.
If it is good only then suspect the capacitor. See Bill Mayo's 7 years comment above.
It would be well if Shopsmith started sending out decals to all owners to be placed near everyone's on-off switch that said "It probably is not the capacitor"...
Maybe there should be a header that pops up on each page here that says "It probably is not the capacitor"...
:)


Did I mention that:
-
"It probably is not the capacitor"...
:D :D
--
farmer
Francis Robinson
I did not equip with Shopsmiths in spite of the setups but because of them.
1 1988 - Mark V 510 (bought new), 4 Poly vee 1 1/8th HP Mark V's, Mark VII, 1 Mark V Mini, 1 Frankensmith, 1 10-ER, 1 Mark V Push-me-Pull-me Drillpress, SS bandsaw, belt sander, jointer, jigsaw, shaper attach, mortising attach, TS-3650 Rigid tablesaw, RAS, 6" long bed jointer, Foley/Belsaw Planer/molder/ripsaw, 1" sander, oscillating spindle/belt sander, Scroll saw, Woodmizer sawmill
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JPG
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Post by JPG »

robinson46176 wrote:Did I mention that:
-
"It probably is not the capacitor"...
:D :D

If 'They" have not gotten the point by now, It ain't gonna happen!:rolleyes:
╔═══╗
╟JPG ╢
╚═══╝

Goldie(Bought New SN 377425)/4" jointer/6" beltsander/12" planer/stripsander/bandsaw/powerstation /Scroll saw/Jig saw /Craftsman 10" ras/Craftsman 6" thicknessplaner/ Dayton10"tablesaw(restoredfromneighborstrashpile)/ Mark VII restoration in 'progress'/ 10E[/size](SN E3779) restoration in progress, a 510 on the back burner and a growing pile of items to be eventually returned to useful life. - aka Red Grange
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dusty
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Motor Replacement on Mark V

Post by dusty »

If you limit that comment (It is Probably not the Capacitor) to the Mark V, I have no grounds upon which to argue.

But if that statement is being made about humming motors in general - we will have to have a long discussion.

I have had four (no make that five) motor failures. One on my standalone belt sander, one on the Power Station and two in pool pumps that were fixed by replacing capacitors.

I also had a catastrophic failure on the Crafter's Station. The guy at the motor shop asked me if I had left it on when it would not turn. Did it hum?, he asked.

I couldn't answer those questions because the Crafter's Station came to me with a bad motor.

My personal experience does not include as many motors as good ole reliable Bill has worked on but it includes enough to make me a believer that "The capacitor does fail from time to time"!

I can't speak to dirty contacts on the start switch because I have never had that happen but maybe that is because of my own cleaning routine. I blow the motors out on a frequent basis as part of the normal shop routine.

Maybe the Shopsmith should be equipped with TEFC motors rather than ODPs??? But, I vote no to that because I don't want to pay the extra price.

Besides, they may not make those in low horse power motors.

:(I'm done on this one. I've said what I think.:(
"Making Sawdust Safely"
Dusty
Sent from my Dell XPS using Firefox.
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JPG
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Post by JPG »

I realize you said you were 'done' Dusty, but how many of those motors with 'failed' capacitors had start switches? A capacitor is used as both a starting capacitor, and a run capacitor. In the case of the ss motor, it performs during startup and is disconnected once up to speed. A motor with a 'run' capacitor is connected the entire time the motor is running! This greatly increases its 'energized' time. IMHO those smaller motors with run capacitors tend to have less conservative design.
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Goldie(Bought New SN 377425)/4" jointer/6" beltsander/12" planer/stripsander/bandsaw/powerstation /Scroll saw/Jig saw /Craftsman 10" ras/Craftsman 6" thicknessplaner/ Dayton10"tablesaw(restoredfromneighborstrashpile)/ Mark VII restoration in 'progress'/ 10E[/size](SN E3779) restoration in progress, a 510 on the back burner and a growing pile of items to be eventually returned to useful life. - aka Red Grange
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mickyd
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Post by mickyd »

robinson46176 wrote:Did I mention that:
-
"It probably is not the capacitor"...
:D :D
Does this mean that I should not throw away my BAD CAPACITOR from my ER since it will be a be a museum piece for future generations to observe. :D . (I can hear the curator now....he whispers....and this, ladies and gentleman, is an extremely rare but not unheard of bad capacitor....)
Mike
Sunny San Diego
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JPG
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Post by JPG »

mickyd wrote:Does this mean that I should not throw away my BAD CAPACITOR from my ER since it will be a be a museum piece for future generations to observe. :D . (I can hear the curator now....he whispers....and this, ladies and gentleman, is an extremely rare but not unheard of bad capacitor....)

This 'discussion' was meant to pertain to capacitors that have NOT been abused!

A capacitor which was immersed in rusty water for god only knows how long in sunny southern CA(where it never 'rains', but man does it 'POUR") is IMHO 'abused'!:eek:
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╚═══╝

Goldie(Bought New SN 377425)/4" jointer/6" beltsander/12" planer/stripsander/bandsaw/powerstation /Scroll saw/Jig saw /Craftsman 10" ras/Craftsman 6" thicknessplaner/ Dayton10"tablesaw(restoredfromneighborstrashpile)/ Mark VII restoration in 'progress'/ 10E[/size](SN E3779) restoration in progress, a 510 on the back burner and a growing pile of items to be eventually returned to useful life. - aka Red Grange
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robinson46176
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Post by robinson46176 »

mickyd wrote:Does this mean that I should not throw away my BAD CAPACITOR from my ER since it will be a be a museum piece for future generations to observe. :D . (I can hear the curator now....he whispers....and this, ladies and gentleman, is an extremely rare but not unheard of bad capacitor....)


"Or a very old umbrella..."
A quote from the museum curator on an episode of "Are You Being Served, Again" (one of my favorite Brit comedies) when making reference to the museums supposed pterodactyl wing on display. :D
--
farmer
Francis Robinson
I did not equip with Shopsmiths in spite of the setups but because of them.
1 1988 - Mark V 510 (bought new), 4 Poly vee 1 1/8th HP Mark V's, Mark VII, 1 Mark V Mini, 1 Frankensmith, 1 10-ER, 1 Mark V Push-me-Pull-me Drillpress, SS bandsaw, belt sander, jointer, jigsaw, shaper attach, mortising attach, TS-3650 Rigid tablesaw, RAS, 6" long bed jointer, Foley/Belsaw Planer/molder/ripsaw, 1" sander, oscillating spindle/belt sander, Scroll saw, Woodmizer sawmill
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dave5358
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Post by dave5358 »

dusty wrote:FWIW, having dirty contacts on the start switch has the exact same effect as having no/bad start capacitor. The dirty/defective contacts serve to disconnect the start capacitor from the motor.
Several users have said START AT THE BEGINNING. Good advice. Before you look at the capacitor or even the switch, be sure your AC power cord is doing its job. On other AC devices, I've seen a power cord wear and deteriorate to the point that it was barely transmitting any power at all - literally hanging on by a single thread or a single strand of wire.

A Shopsmith lasts forever, but not so power cords.
Flexing wires and breaking strands makes motor starting hard.
(Mary Travers, 1936-2009)
Dave
Sunny Dayton
- Mark V "Greenie" s/n 273353 - Acquired July 1972
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JPG
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Post by JPG »

dave5358 wrote:Several users have said START AT THE BEGINNING. Good advice. Before you look at the capacitor or even the switch, be sure your AC power cord is doing its job. On other AC devices, I've seen a power cord wear and deteriorate to the point that it was barely transmitting any power at all - literally hanging on by a single thread or a single strand of wire.

A Shopsmith lasts forever, but not so power cords.
Flexing wires and breaking strands makes motor starting hard.
(Mary Travers, 1936-2009)
Nice analogy!
╔═══╗
╟JPG ╢
╚═══╝

Goldie(Bought New SN 377425)/4" jointer/6" beltsander/12" planer/stripsander/bandsaw/powerstation /Scroll saw/Jig saw /Craftsman 10" ras/Craftsman 6" thicknessplaner/ Dayton10"tablesaw(restoredfromneighborstrashpile)/ Mark VII restoration in 'progress'/ 10E[/size](SN E3779) restoration in progress, a 510 on the back burner and a growing pile of items to be eventually returned to useful life. - aka Red Grange
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