Shopsmith Forums

[quote="dusty"]But, who am I to criticize]

I am not sure that anyone understands that Shopsmith/RLF LLC has only about a dozen people left in the building. They moved to a much smaller space. They have several QA personell (2-3), the Customer Service dept (3-4), shipping (1) and factory floor (3-4). Almost everyone has been with Shopsmith for many many years (over 20). I am not aware of any marketing people left now. I believe QA handles that task now. These are based on my guessments from the Owner's Weekend in July 2008 and I doubt if any new people have been hired since then.

Therefore I am amazed at the outstanding service I have been receiving the past few years when so few are doing so much.

I would love to see another Owner's Weekend for the PowerPro introduction and get to meet more Shopsmith owners along with the factory personnel. I really enjoyed the factory tours and the QA dept testing information.

paulrussell wrote:The first question would be: What possible disadvantages are there to a 510 upgrade? (Other than having a box of 500 parts that I will no longer need)

the only disadvantages that I can recall are:
1) it takes more room to store when the table(s) is(are) installed, and
2) if you decide that you really want the 520 upgrade, then there seems to be less of a re-sale market for the 510 rails that you are removing (I could be missing a market here, just have not seen it).

while you are using the 500, you might consider the adjustable support table leg if you are going to do much in drill press mode.

Ivan

Hey Paul - I have a 510, and in general, I am very pleased with it. My biggest beef about the 510 is that you _still_ have to measure the distance between the fence and the saw blade. It's a better table and a better fence, but there is no way that I am aware of to index the fence to the blade.

I bought an Incra fence, which I believe does a better job than the 520 fence. I thought about upgrading to a 520, but liked the repeatability of the Incra better. It seemed to me that you would still need to compensate for the location of the blade with a 520, where as it is very easy to zero the Incra to the blade. It is more of a pain to set up, though, and for non-critical cuts, I still use the 510 fence.

One other thing to note about the 510 system - some of the higher-end accessories seem to have a natural preference for the 520 rails. The default configuration for the Incra fence is the 520 rails (but it comes with a kit to switch it to the 510 rails)... and unless I am mistaken, the Jointech system doesn't even have a 510 option anymore.

It also looks to me like the 520 rails would operate more smoothly, but that it pure speculation.

Good luck!

Bill Mayo:

My son and I were also there at the Shopsmith week-end in '08. I'm sure you remember that it was Nick, Drew, and Jim McCann that put on the show. None of the Folkerth's were there, not even a nice letter from one of them thanking us for attending.

I'm led to believe that Bob Folkerth is not interested in "in shop" customer events. This is a shame. My son and I drove a combined total of 2800 miles in order to attend, and I know that there were several others, yourself included, who also drove many miles in that year of $4+ gasoline. There were 45 of us there and obviously the grand total of all of our expenses amounted to a considerable sum.

Actually, Shopsmith "missed the boat". With just a little bit of marketing savy they could have offered us discounts and a few freebees and would have racked up a lot of sales that week-end. I came prepared with that thought in mind, and as it turned out, we were not even able to place any orders.

However, I'm not mired in negativity, if Bob Folkerth would get behind and sponser another week-end event, and do it right, I would certainly be willing to make the long drive down from the U.P. to Dayton again. Let's hope it happens.

riot_nrrd wrote:I wouldn't be so sure... or was that tongue in cheek?

Yes, that was "tongue in cheek". I realize that they have reduced forces and are fighting hard to stay afloat. But I also realize that they have invested a lot of money in the new PowerPro. Staying afloat and Introducing the PowerPro to the world (both huge tasks in themselves) will require some marketing.

I hope they have accounted for that.

Relying on purchases by members of this forum sure won't do it. If every one of us that are "active participants" here was to purchase the PowerPro, the proceeds would not be great enough to recover the development costs let alone make a profit.

The word is getting out some how that Shopsmith exists. Since November of last year (6 months) there have been 649 new members join this group of Shopsmith Users. Many of them are now regular participants and are either waiting to buy or are restoring and upgrading systems they already have. I think this indicates that there is a market but someone, some how must work that market. Aahh, a job for the "Marketing Department".

OK. I confess. I lied.

Not really, but I did change my mind.

I went ahead and bought the 510 upgrade for sale on ebay. The reason I did so was that I watched the Sawdust Sessions videos about table stability and accuracy, and how much stability would be gained by locking the tables together -- possible only with the 510 or 520.

I bought my Shopsmith because I am interested in building wooden puzzles and wooden geared clocks. Both need a high degree of accuracy which, while I sure can be done on a 500 given enough patience, I felt would be much better served by the 510. And the price was right.

Lord help me, but I've become a Shopsmith junkie. I'm also looking at a used ringmaster and the bandsaw (the latter in need of much help). After a lifetime of making do, I've decided that this is an area where I really would like to do it right.

Note to Bill Mayo: -- my "needs" list has just been reduced by all the things included in the 510 upgrade.

Sorry about the fib. But I'm happier now.

paulrussell wrote:...
Lord help me, but I've become a Shopsmith junkie. I'm also looking at a used ringmaster and the bandsaw (the latter in need of much help). After a lifetime of making do, I've decided that this is an area where I really would like to do it right.

But I'm happier now.

Been watching your first 20 posts with interest. Couldn't really discern what your concerns really were! Costs? Quality? Sources? Other?

Now we all know!:) You are caught up in a love affair with our favorite large metal woodworking jig named a Shopsmith!

No foul! A change of mind, or two (or more) happens to us all!

Best wishes for accomplishing your projects! Keep on posting - looking forward to seeing stuff you produce!:)

riot_nrrd wrote:Hey Paul - I have a 510, and in general, I am very pleased with it. My biggest beef about the 510 is that you _still_ have to measure the distance between the fence and the saw blade. It's a better table and a better fence, but there is no way that I am aware of to index the fence to the blade.

.........

Good luck!

Is it possible that a rip scale of sorts could be added to the front edge of the table. What I have in mind is a scale attached to (engraved into) a piece of small angle that could be mounted against the front edge of the table behind the normal spacers. This scale would not be laterally adjustable but there would be a scale. Something like these images are intended to depict:

[ATTACH]8652[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH]8653[/ATTACH]

dusty wrote:This scale would not be laterally adjustable but there would be a scale.

See, that's the part I have trouble with. I like that with the Incra, I put the fence against the blade, zero the scale, and then do a test cut to fine tune it. That way, when I need a 3" cut, I can just move the fence to 3", as opposed to trying to figure out how many hash marks over I need to go. Lord knows I have a hard enough time remembering and not screwing up the 3", let alone if I had to remember "ok, zero is actually at 3/16", so you need to cut at 3 and 3/16... or was it 2 and 13/16? argghhhh....."