Why I didn't buy a new Shopsmith

[dusty]

Or you have a base of fanatical customers that already know what is available and that base is what you are counting on.

To suggest SS can compete directly against the 'current' plethora of cheap tools available today HEAD to HEAD is folly!

It may be 'elitist' to some, but they do have a unique product and as such are catering to a different customer than the mass marketed stuff!

I do not have a magic bullet either, but do recognize that their worst 'competition' is e-bay! Having said that, their best ally is e-bay also. Sooner or later a user will get fed up with the junk and go for the new parts. Also many have acquired their first hands on experience by way of e-bay and craigslist. They will be needing 'parts' if not to get their new tool up and running properly, to fix it when and if it 'breaks'.

This is dependent upon Shopsmith remaining a source of Shopsmith unique items (parts and pieces). I don't know, are they doing that? It seems like maybe they are because we (the forum) no longer see a lot of complaints about items that have been back ordered.

As far as junk is concerned, I have yet to receive anything from Craig's List or E-bay that I would call junk. Less than new but not junk.

[kalynzoo]

Paul, I'm in total agreement. I purchased new, or at least factory refurbished, at the California State Fair. It was only after viewing the investment for a few years at different fair venues, touching, watching, asking questions, that I finally felt comfortable making the $3K investment. After purchases, the seemingly complicated machine remained relatively unused until I attended the traveling academy a few months later.
It is my strong opinion (for what it is worth) that SS should resume its live presence in the woodworking community. Until then, I will purchases my accessories from them, support their company, appreciate and give great reviews to their product...but I will not purchase their stock.

[JPG]

As far as junk is concerned, I have yet to receive anything from Craig's List or E-bay that I would call junk. Less than new but not junk.

What 'condition' would you say this 'control sheave' is?

[ATTACH]9011[/ATTACH]

Or this?

[ATTACH]9012[/ATTACH]

Short spring makes this junk.

[ATTACH]9013[/ATTACH]

They all arrived in the same box(with other 'pristine' parts) and went back in the same box. FULL REFUND offer included shipping BOTH ways!

Tell me 'he' was not aware of the actual condition of his '9 on a scale of 1 to 10 condition' parts of his 'well kept shopsmith'!

[dusty]

But I did not buy that and assume you did not communicate with the seller. I hope you did not communicate with him before the purchase! If you did, "buyer beware"!

[paulrussell]

There are a few points I was trying to make.

1) Shopsmith, in developing the PowerPro, appears intent upon selling new machines. Shopsmith's home page is focused upon the new machine buyer, not the existing owner, again indicating they wish to remain active in the new machine market.
2) Without new machines, Shopsmith's business is guaranteed to shrink year after year as the number of existing machines dwindles, and those who remember them dwindle as well.
3) Shopsmith has determined that touring demonstrations are no longer effective. They have replaced them with nothing. The younger buyer of today has never heard nor seen a Shopsmith, and has nothing to lead them to the Shopsmith web site.
4) Even those, such as myself, who are old enough to remember the Shopsmith infomercials and travelling demos, find a web page riddled with errors and ancient, difficult to see B&W photos. I won't repeat my initial impression, but it was not good. The opportunity for the sale of a new machine was lost.

In short, Shopsmith has stated that they are now an internet business, but neither advertises on the internet, nor modernizes a web page that appears to have been largely copied from a 1980's catalog.

[JPG]

But I did not buy that and assume you did not communicate with the seller. I hope you did not communicate with him before the purchase! If you did, "buyer beware"!

Effective communication not possible! HE LIES!

We all are dependent upon honesty in both the description and any direct communication undertaken. It was not present from the sellers direction in either case!!!

Fortunately it was an isolated 'incident'. What galls me however, is that by allowing a return, he eliminated the possibility of feedback that could have 'alerted' other potential purchasers. This turkey has a 100% rating. Sadly I now know how he maintains that! Tain't fair to the next guy!

[woodburner]

Paulrussel,

What website are you looking at?

The Shopsmith homepage/website that offers the new machines for sale that I see has nice, bright color photos, great information about the machine, online videos of each of the five basic woodworking functions, etc. The online videos are from the "Sawdust Therapy" video/DVD that they used to send out in the mail when requested. You can still get this DVD and all the other info by 'calling' the company's customer service line: 1-800-543-7586 (listed on the website). Not sure what you are looking at, but the website seems pretty updated to me. Not sure why your online request went unnoticed, maybe a friendly phone call to them could have cleared that up also.

Sorry that my views are different than yours, I'm not trying to start something here:) , but I think they do a pretty good job keeping up with their websites. Were you looking at this website
www.shopsmith.com ?

Yes, it is a shame that they no longer have the demo's (did you get a chance to see one), they were directed to the new buyer and were the same everytime they did one. That's why it bothers me that the owners who have had Shopsmiths for years were the biggest complainers on this forum when they stopped. I met some current owners while I was at the demo where I purchased mine, but they were there just for the entertainment and were not buying anything. They just hung around watching the salesman put on demo after demo. Why? It puzzled me. Were they Shopsmith groupies? I myself find it more fulfilling to be in my own workshop, cutting wood and making projects on my own Shopsmith. Do I miss the store demos? No.

The one thing I do miss the most is the Traveling Academy. If they bring anything back, I hope that is it. The 'TA' was SS's ace-in-the-hole because no other woodworking tool company offered such a great way to reach out to their customers. Offering classes on how the machines worked and where you can ask any dumb question you wanted was the best thing they ever offered. I think SS would have been better off investing their money back into the 'TA' than this "PowerPro" that no one has seen yet. It's been a year since it was announced, and I'm beginning to doubt it will ever get on the market. How much money was spent researching this thing? All they had to do was look at a "Total Shop" made by Smitthy. They've had an electronic variable speed motor in those machines for years. So, the "PowerPro" isn't anything new.

Was the 'TA' a marketing tool also? You bet. Whenever I had the chance to go, the instructor offered special deals on Shopsmith accessories and tools, and I never saw him sell less than $2,000 worth of accesories at each class. The 'TA' usually offered three different classes in each town they stopped in. Times that with the $2,000 at each class, $6,000. The 'TA' was in about 40 different towns a year, so all-in-all about $240,000 sold each year in accessories. To me, that's a no-brainer for a company. Why they ended it, I don't know. If they ever offer it again, I hope I can be hired as an instructor. Getting to use the woodworking tools I enjoy the most, being able to teach others the great joy and satisfaction you receive from woodworking, getting to travel around the country, and getting paid for it? Sign me up.

I can live without the store demos, but I sure miss the Travling Academy. I learned a lot of new stuff every time I went. Sure it was basically the same, but it was the students that made each class unique. I probably learned more from the answers to questions that the students asked than anything else.

[paulrussell]

Paulrussel,

What website are you looking at?

Same one as you. You and I will have to agree to disagree that the website is modern looking and up-to-date. We will also have to disagree regarding whether the photos are large enough and show sufficient detail.

The video you refer to is clearly of 80s vintage (I have the full version on DVD) and did not give me the feeling of "updated."

Nowhere on the site could I find anything that gave me a clear understanding of the differences between the 510 and 520. Perhaps just a reflection of my mental capacity.

Go to: http://www.shopsmith.com/markvsite/standardaccess.htm
Unless you already know what you are looking at, IMHO that picture is pretty small and in my experience, small indistinct photos are a common means of covering up a world of faults. It is irrelevant that they are indeed quality items. We are talking about the neophyte who is trying to decide if they should entrust 3 grand of their money.

Go to: http://www.shopsmith.com/markvsite/purchaseNB.htm
and for the 510 upgrade select "See what's included.." That sure looks like a tiny B&W pic to me.

Go to: http://www.shopsmith.com/markvsite/testimonials.htm
and select "audio testimonials" .... Oops.

Go to: http://www.shopsmith.com/markvsite/partner.htm
and see that three of the fourteen reasons are no longer in existence yet still advertised.

Then, on the same page, select "Click to Recieve* Your FREE Shopsmith MARK V DVD & Mail Package ! "
(* i before e except after c...)

then you are asked to enter your name and mailing address. Then you are redirected to a page where you are told to telephone to get your DVD? Huh? What happened to my mail package? If you aren't gonna send me something, why did you need my postal address? And why did you ask for my email address if you aren't ever gonna contact me by email (they didn't).

Asking a customer for contact information with the promise of sending them something (FREE Shopsmith Mark V DVD and Mail Package !) and then not sending anything does NOT instill confidence.

Now go here: http://www.shopsmith.com/markvsite/demos.htm
Enter your zip. Oh, no demo near me today. So again I'm asked for my name, email, and postal information so that I can be contacted when the non-existent demo is near me. I am then told

Thank You For Your Request

We have received your request and will be sure to invite you to the next MARK V demonstration in your area. Please feel free to look over the rest of our site.


Stupid me. I actually believed I would get a notice when a demonstration was in my area.

Stupid me. I actually believed that if I bought one, I could go to a travelling or National Shopsmith Academy woodworking class.

Stupid me. I actually believed I would be sent an information packet by mail.

I maintain that this is not a well maintained web site and it is not an effective marketing or sales tool. I came with the desire to buy a Shopsmith, and instead of instilling confidence in the company, it lessened it. And given the financial straights the company is experiencing, I dare say I'm not alone.

[paulrussell]

As far as junk is concerned, I have yet to receive anything from Craig's List or E-bay that I would call junk. Less than new but not junk.

I have made roughly 400 transactions on ebay. Two or three times I've been ripped off. That's probably a better ratio than my last 400 retail purchases. And the thousands of dollars I've saved by buying smart (and just cuz it's on ebay doesn't make it a good deal) more than makes up for the few times I pulled the short straw.

[charlese]

Oh - Com-on!!!!! I just went to the first Shopsmith web site that most people would see. (Shopsmith.com) There is a good sized picture of a man using a Shopsmith. Then there are 5 smaller photos of the various uses of the basic model.

Clicking on the red strip below the small pictures take you immediately to a page showing and discussing that use. Although I didn't look at all uses - I saw a down-loadable DVD showing the disk sander use. Increasing the page size to 150% gives an almost full screen picture of the operation.

Also, a click on the small pictures will give you sound effects.

SoRRy! Don't see the problem with the web site!