dasgud wrote:I was thinking about filet knives where flexibility is desirable. I use bandsaw steel for draw scrapers/shapers now and it works great for that.
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Of course, that's more steel than I would need for a lifetime of scrapers, but I share .
Do you know why file steel should be left outside to make a good knife?
Nope
I just had a friend, that I have since lost touch with, that always said the best steel for a knife came from a file that was lost outside for a year then found.
I know at one turners expo/lecture one of the speakers said he often took files and put them outside for a year or two and then ground them into lathe tools. I can't remember the reason just that he did it.
I wood think that a file WOOD KNOT be any good for a knife or a lathe tool. To BRITTLE.
SS 500(09/1980), DC3300, jointer, bandsaw, belt sander, Strip Sander, drum sanders,molder, dado, biscuit joiner, universal lathe tool rest, Oneway talon chuck, router bits & chucks and a De Walt 735 planer,a #5,#6, block planes. ALL in a 100 square foot shop. .
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Bob
beeg wrote:I wood think that a file WOOD KNOT be any good for a knife or a lathe tool. To BRITTLE.
But holds an edge(if you ever get one on it!:D). Just do not use it for a screw driver!:eek:
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Goldie(Bought New SN 377425)/4" jointer/6" beltsander/12" planer/stripsander/bandsaw/powerstation /Scroll saw/Jig saw /Craftsman 10" ras/Craftsman 6" thicknessplaner/ Dayton10"tablesaw(restoredfromneighborstrashpile)/ Mark VII restoration in 'progress'/ 10E[/size](SN E3779) restoration in progress, a 510 on the back burner and a growing pile of items to be eventually returned to useful life. - aka Red Grange
I googled "making knives from files" and found lots of videos etc. on the subject and the trick is to remove the carbon and temper from the files by barbecue-ing them lol. Seriously, lay a used file over red coals, then cover with hard wood logs and that will 'soften' them enough to file and shape. I over simplified the explanation, but that was the common procedure from all the references. Now that I saw those videos I think I'll use some old circular saw blades to make some knives. I was going to make some clocks out of them but never really was interested enough to start that.
I couldn't find any references to leaving them outside though. I'm really curious as to why that's done. Actually, here on the east coast of Florida a full year would probably wield a smallish pile of rust.
dasgud wrote:I googled "making knives from files" and found lots of videos etc. on the subject and the trick is to remove the carbon and temper from the files by barbecue-ing them lol. Seriously, lay a used file over red coals, then cover with hard wood logs and that will 'soften' them enough to file and shape. I over simplified the explanation, but that was the common procedure from all the references. Now that I saw those videos I think I'll use some old circular saw blades to make some knives. I was going to make some clocks out of them but never really was interested enough to start that.
I couldn't find any references to leaving them outside though. I'm really curious as to why that's done. Actually, here on the east coast of Florida a full year would probably wield a smallish pile of rust.
I don't think you want to remove the carbon. What you want to do is anneal the steel, heat red hot and then cool slowly. Your charcoal method would do this nicely. The metal will be easy to shape in this state but would make a poor knife. Once you have the steel shaped you can then reharden it by heating red hot and quenching (oil usually) however in this state it is now dead hard and brittle. I have a lathe collet that rolled off the bench and shattered when it hit the floor. You can reheat the steel to a lower temperature (tempering) this will allow you to maintain much of the hardness while restoring much of the toughness.
Note this is a gross simplification.
I'm curious to hear what leaving the file outdoors for a year would accomplish. Perhaps we can have a race between you, me, and Ed to see what region of Florida can rust a file away the quickest.
My money would have to be on Ed as he has the "benefit" of all that salt air.
Troy
The best equipped laundry room in the neighborhood...
horologist wrote:I'm curious to hear what leaving the file outdoors for a year would accomplish. Perhaps we can have a race between you, me, and Ed to see what region of Florida can rust a file away the quickest.
My money would have to be on Ed as he has the "benefit" of all that salt air.
Troy
haha I used to live on the barrier islands on the east coast, between the ocean and the Banana River (salt water). I could taste the salt in the air... When I was deployed for Desert Storm, my pick up truck, which was parked outside, practically rusted away in that 14 months. Holes rusted in the roof, hood, floor boards... I wouldn't even get in that truck at first because of all the mold inside. That was sad.
I don't live that close to the beach anymore.
so yea, you're right about annealing the metal to make it workable. Obviously, I didn't understand all I read and watched, just picked up the larger points. However going back through my browser history I think the term I wanted to use was to "bleed the carbon". Apparently some carbon will bleed to and settle on the surface of the file during the annealing process and will need to be removed to work the steel underneath.
I wish I knew about this when I built counter tops. I used to wear out 5 - 10 files a week.
dasgud wrote:I was thinking about filet knives where flexibility is desirable. I use bandsaw steel for draw scrapers/shapers now and it works great for that.
[ATTACH]11982[/ATTACH]
Of course, that's more steel than I would need for a lifetime of scrapers, but I share .
Do you know why file steel should be left outside to make a good knife?
hey paul, i'm not sure of the exact molocule or chemical change involved, but a well known race car engine builder in our area used to put bare, cleaned engine blocks, cranks and rods out in the back lot and left them for about a year. i asked him one time and he mumbled, (engine builders dont like to give away secrets), something about making the metal tougher?? now he uses cryo treatment and his engines are bullet proof!!! from all i've read and studied about cryo treatment, we could have some life long parts on our shopsmith with this?? in fact, every NASCAR car we watched this past weekend had every metal part cryo treated, well, except maybe for Harvick and Burton, (two of my favorites!!)
wa2crk wrote:I wonder what OSHA would think of the protective gear those blade handlers were using?:eek:
Bill V
I think the saw and blade predate OSHA! Maybe that is why they are to keep the door closed at all times!:D
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Goldie(Bought New SN 377425)/4" jointer/6" beltsander/12" planer/stripsander/bandsaw/powerstation /Scroll saw/Jig saw /Craftsman 10" ras/Craftsman 6" thicknessplaner/ Dayton10"tablesaw(restoredfromneighborstrashpile)/ Mark VII restoration in 'progress'/ 10E[/size](SN E3779) restoration in progress, a 510 on the back burner and a growing pile of items to be eventually returned to useful life. - aka Red Grange
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I used to live on the barrier islands on the east coast, between the ocean and the Banana River (salt water). I could taste the salt in the air... When I was deployed for Desert Storm, my pick up truck, which was parked outside, practically rusted away in that 14 months. Holes rusted in the roof, hood, floor boards... I wouldn't even get in that truck at first because of all the mold inside. That was sad.