Double Tilt Upgrade

damagi · Post by **damagi** » Sat May 28, 2011 4:31 pm

robinson46176 wrote:Somewhere is a post where I discussed just using two pivot end assemblies (you already have one) and using simple removable pins to replace the regular pivot pins. I suggested using a pair of 3/4" tractor hitch pins from a farm store with loop handles and a hole for a simple hair-pin.
With that process one end would maybe more often solidly fastened. At least a hole missing a pin or a pin laying around in the way would be more noticeable than a loose knob that most would not see. SS's method looks OK but I suspect that we will start seeing a few bent or broken end castings from the "Godzilla Gang" over-tightening the lock knobs... That web is pretty thin.

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Misssing knobs shouldn't be too big of a deal because there are rubber washers on the screws. As such, they won;t come all the way out unless you are really trying.

damagi · Post by **damagi** » Sat May 28, 2011 4:32 pm

SDSSmith wrote:I would contact Shopsmith based on their description of what is included. Looks like your order was shorted the knobs and accessory locks.

Unfortunately, from the picture (and documentation) it looks like I got what was pictured. lame...I will email CS and see what happens.

SDSSmith · Post by **SDSSmith** » Sat May 28, 2011 5:15 pm

damagi wrote:

Unfortunately, from the picture (and documentation) it looks like I got what was pictured. lame...I will email CS and see what happens.

The picture does not reflect the words from their website:
Here's What's Included With Your Upgrade Kit:
&#8226](2) Accessory Mount Lock & Knob Sets[/color]
• Two New Double-Rack Worktable Posts with Locking Pins
• Comprehensive Instructions

damagi · Post by **damagi** » Sat May 28, 2011 5:50 pm

SDSSmith wrote:The picture does not reflect the words from their website:
Here's What's Included With Your Upgrade Kit:
• Two New Base & Arm Assemblies with (2) Pivot Bases, (2) Pivot Arms & (2) Accessory Mount Lock & Knob Sets
• Two New Double-Rack Worktable Posts with Locking Pins
• Comprehensive Instructions

Good catch - hopefully you are correct. Interestingly, they don't mention the Tube Lock Bar, which seems like it would be a natural inclusion. perhaps its because the bar is slightly different for older units?

JPG · Post by **JPG** » Sat May 28, 2011 8:43 pm

They engineered the base to work with both 1 3/4" tubes as well as 1 7/8" tubes. How so? Your pix seems to show the tubes off center towards the middle. Are the holes the same distance apart? The 'added' casting appendage is also shown in your pix(the appendage they added when changing from 1 7/8" to 1 3/4" bench tubes). ?????

They don't mention the Tube Lock Bar, which seems like it would be a natural inclusion. perhaps its because the bar is slightly different for older units? The lock screw? Even a model 10 one would work. IMHO it is necessary to include one in the upgrade 'kit'.

dusty · Post by **dusty** » Sat May 28, 2011 9:13 pm

JPG40504 wrote:They engineered the base to work with both 1 3/4" tubes as well as 1 7/8" tubes. How so? Your pix seems to show the tubes off center towards the middle. Are the holes the same distance apart? The 'added' casting appendage is also shown in your pix(the appendage they added when changing from 1 7/8" to 1 3/4" bench tubes). ?????

They don't mention the Tube Lock Bar, which seems like it would be a natural inclusion. perhaps its because the bar is slightly different for older units? The lock screw? Even a model 10 one would work. IMHO it is necessary to include one in the upgrade 'kit'.

I think you will see this same condition in older models 510s as well. Larger tubes could be inserted in mine.

damagi · Post by **damagi** » Sat May 28, 2011 10:14 pm

JPG40504 wrote:They engineered the base to work with both 1 3/4" tubes as well as 1 7/8" tubes. How so? Your pix seems to show the tubes off center towards the middle. Are the holes the same distance apart? The 'added' casting appendage is also shown in your pix(the appendage they added when changing from 1 7/8" to 1 3/4" bench tubes). ?????

They don't mention the Tube Lock Bar, which seems like it would be a natural inclusion. perhaps its because the bar is slightly different for older units? The lock screw? Even a model 10 one would work. IMHO it is necessary to include one in the upgrade 'kit'.

By "tube lock bar" I am referring to part 3 (pn 504146) in the exploded view.

As for accomidating 1 7/8" tubes, the instructions clearly mention them. Also, there is clearance around the 1 3/4" tubes when inserted, and eyeballing it its about 1/16" on all sides before tightening.

JPG · Post by **JPG** » Sat May 28, 2011 10:58 pm

damagi wrote:By "tube lock bar" I am referring to part 3 (pn 504146) in the exploded view.

As for accomidating 1 7/8" tubes, the instructions clearly mention them. Also, there is clearance around the 1 3/4" tubes when inserted, and eyeballing it its about 1/16" on all sides before tightening.

I am very curious just what they said in regard to the 1 7/8" tubes.

The holes have been just over 1 7/8" from at least the later Goldies which have 1 3/4" tubes. Yes a 1 7/8" tube will go into them, but the locating ribs which the locking bar pushes them against is 1/16" in closer to the center of the holes. The hole ctc spacing is 8 1/2". With the added 1/16" rib dimension, the 1 3/4" tubes are spaced 8 1/2" ctc. That creates a 1/16(~) clearance all around the 1 7/8" hole.

If 1 7/8" tubes were inserted, the locating rib is too far in to allow the tubes to be located properly. A 1 7/8" tube inserted 'straight' into the 1 7/8 hole will butt against the side of the locating rib. It is this 'detail' which I am most curious as to how they 'engineered' a way to accommodate the larger tubes.

The distance separating the locating ribs(side to side) is 10 1/4" for 1 3/4" tubes. I woud expect the older castings which accommodated 1 7/8" tubes to have a 10 3/8" distance separating them.

I see no reason for the locking bars to be any different from 1 7/8" days to present.

Now if the 'engineering' involved is to insert the larger tubes(crooked) and allow the tubes to bow then I have to disagree on the use of the term 'engineered'.

I do hope something else is the case.

P.S. what I was referring to as necessary was the 'base lock' screw which holds it in vertical(drill press) position.

damagi · Post by **damagi** » Sat May 28, 2011 11:45 pm

The only place that they mention the 1 7/8" tubes is on the last page of the manual, which provides a template for a "tube support" temporary jig.

&quot wrote:NOTE: If your machine was made before 1972, make this Tube Support 5-11/16" tall, not 5-3/4" tall. These machines have 1-7/8" diameter Bench Tubes so there is less space between Bench and Way Tubes.

JPG · Post by **JPG** » Sun May 29, 2011 12:03 am

damagi wrote:The only place that they mention the 1 7/8" tubes is on the last page of the manual, which provides a template for a "tube support" temporary jig.

Thank You!

I appears somebody not only does not understand the difference in the castings from 1 7/8" castings, but also when the 1 7/8" tubes were discontinued!

Tis worse than I feared. I do not think 1 7/8" tubes will fit properly!!!