Table height adjustment question...

[charlese]

Agree 100% with what Dusty said. (SPT means Special Purpose Tools)

[reible]

Hi Ed]Hi Ed,

Another Ed here to give you some prospective on what I did and some of the reasons for what I did. You ask for someone who spend sometime with the old 500, got mine in 1976, upgrade to the 520 only about 3 years ago. I have been retired for the last 6 years. I had set aside $5000 for shop purchases which sounded like a lot but turned to be a bit short. In addition to my shopsmith (and a lot of attachments) I owned a fair number of other tools. I already had non-shopsmith tools in the shop, like a bandsaw, a 4" long bed jointer, a 6" jointer, a 13" planner, a dust collector, and LOTs of router gear, and lots of hand/and power tools.[/color]

One of the first things I wanted was the 500 to 520 upgrade. Got that and then found I need to spend a good deal more to convert the old 500 items to 510/520 compatable stuff. This included going to the 2 bearing quill etc. I picked this option after looking at getting a stand alone table saw for about the same cost as the upgrade. For a lot of years I made do and improvised with the small table and fence setup and wanted a better table saw. For me the way was with the upgrade.

I proceeded to get a few more attachments for the shopsmith but none of the big ticket items. With the money I have to spend and the items I want I'm sad to say I don't see any of the high ticket shopsmith items fitting in. Love to have them but I can't afford them at my age... For example, I'd like to have a "new" scroll saw but unless I get a used shopsmith one either local or on ebay I will most likely go for another brand, at a far less cost.

Thanks to ebay I was able to find a couple of older shopsmith items I wanted, both the overhead pin router/router table and the jointmatic. I added a second shopsmith (510 - simi basket case).

I have an old 500 with a 50th anniversary headstock, so I have the new drive and the 2 bearing quill. I have the wider auxilary table that I use on the right hand side, and the cross-cut sled. The old auxilary table now does double duty as the permanent mount for my sharpening jig and also as the left-side auxiliary table. I have 2 front table extensions that I use when wide work requires it. I have upgraded the rip fence and intend to upgrade the carriage and table very soon. So, here's the question:

I have been saving my dimes and in June, when I retire from full-time work, I plan on honoring the ocassion by placing an order with Shopsmith for some of the SPT's that I don't have, along with the planer and some other misc parts, pieces and goodies. (can't wait for June!!). Now, I could take that money and upgrade the MkV to a 520, but then I would have to wait longer for the belt sander, planer, speed reducer etc etc. Honestly, I don't see the compelling need to upgrade, since my 500/505 does everything I need it to. 520 owners, put yourself in my position and then, based on your experience, let me know...which would you choose?

I would say you need to study what you intend to do in your shop and what tools can best do the job for you. Some of those tools might not be shopsmith... yes the shopsmith is wonderful but so what if the machine is still running great in 50 years... it is unlikely you will be using it at 115. (see discussions else where on forum mainly about the planner)

Don't just buy tools to buy tools. I use to use my belt sander a lot but now it collects more dust then it makes. I could almost do without it. If you're sure you have a reason to have it get it but other wise save the money for something else. At the cost of the belt sander you could look at adding some more money and getting a drum thickness sander or the sandflee.....

Now I'll end this with just a bit more about the 500/510/520 issue. When I upgrade my 500 to a 520 it was like have a new saw. I loved it and still would do that before I did any other upgrade... only wished I had done it years before. Since I had used the 520 before I got the 510 I found I did not like the 510... I never made friends with it so to speak and ended up upgrading it to a 520. Given my experences I'd rather have the old 500 then the 510 but I'd much rather the 520 then anything. I also have to admit I have thoughts about getting a third shopsmith, a 500, no kidding, really. I have a lot of jigs and helper made for the 500 and lots of extra hardware left over from the first upgrade so it just might happen someday.

Yes, I know I wasn't much help, turns out you need to make your own calls because each of us has a different situation and different requirements and different pocket depths. And by the way all that extra time you think your going to have.... forget it, you will be even busier once you retire.


Thanks,

Ed
Idaho Panhandle
MkV 500/505, not nearly enough accessories

P.S.

You might want to time your purchases to match the sales... the email sales seem to have some really special deals that are hard to pass up... and in most years the prices go up around the first of the year... So if prices go up 10% in January next Junes sale with 30% off is not going to be as good a deal as the 30% off sale this December......

Ed

[edflorence]

Hi all...

Thanks for the thoughtful replies to my question. I found the insights helpful and pretty much in line with my own thoughts. Come June, I guess I will go ahead and purchase the major accessories I have been wanting and let go of the idea of the 520 upgrade for a while.

Ed, I found it interesting that you had set aside $5000 for your shop, since that is the same number I have been kicking around. I figure that I should have just about that much in unused vacation time when I retire and I have been telling my wife for years that any unused vacation time is "dedicated" to the shop, which she is fine with. I was hoping that 5K would get me what I want with a little left over for materials, but judging from your experience, maybe I am being optimistic!

I appreciate the advice to buy tools as the need arises, rather than buying them just to watch them collect dust. I admit to being a bit of a "tool junky" but not too bad. Almost all the tools in my shop actually get used. Some more than others, but sooner or later they all see service. I have often missed not having a planer in the shop and only once in a while missed having a belt sander, so maybe I will re-think my ideas of what it is I really need, and let the projects determine what tool to buy next.

Thanks for the help!

Ed
Idaho Panhandle
MkV 500/505

[dusty]

I think you might have a workable plan there. Bank the $5000 and let it grow a little interest, tapping the account for what you "need" for the shop on an as required basis.

Now and then, a deposit to the account could be made, offsetting recent purchases. That way, maybe the account will never go broke and you'll have a shop full of equipment too.

[edflorence]

aah...the best of all worlds... a self-sustaining shop!

Ed
Idaho Panhandle
Mkv 500/505

[Ed in Tampa]

[quote="edflorence"]Hi Ed]

Ed
Here is my opinion. Between now and when you retire I would be keeping my eye out for sales. If you live any where near a Lowes pay particular attention as I see them beginning to close out different ends of the Dewalt/Delta/Porter Cable product lines. I think Black and Decker that now owns Dewalt, Delta and Porter Cable want to simplify their product structure and eliminate duplicates how exactly this is going to shake out I don't know but I'm beginning to see some really good deals.

Now back to the Shopsmith. I liked my 500 and I thought I liked my 510 until I got the the 520 and now I don't know why Shopsmith even offers the 510.
However if you need the Special purpose tools I would probably get them. However I would only buy what I needed when I needed it. Incidently you need the Bandsaw and jointer. I think both of these are a must in a shop.

Now I will stick my neck out, if your thinking of buying the Shopsmith planner I would shop around. First if you buy the one that mounts on the Shopsmith ask yourself if your are going to be able to lift it later in life. I have found I don't lift quite as good as I used to. I bought the two speed Delta at one of the closeouts for song (I think $200) and I bought the wide wheeled hobby cart from Sears for a song ( I think $100 regular $250) and mounted the planner on it. Boy does that save the back and I got less than $350 into the whole thing with dust chutes, set of extra knives, mounting hardware. Plus I got 4 four extra drawers to store stuff in.

Some one mentioned the SS belt sander and frankly I think with the new Random Orbital Sanders, Shopsmith's Disk and Conical Sander and a nice 1/4 sheet sander there is little need for the Shopsmith belt sander. However I have my eye on the strip sander mainly for sharpening and delicate work.
I have a large Porter Cable ROS that is based on the right angle grinder body. I use it almost exclusively for anything I would have used a belt sander in the past. It is big enough and powerful enough to really hog off wood in rough sanding using 40 or 60 grit but yet can be used with 220 or 300 and used to finish sand.

Besides if I do my planning properly I often don't have to sand at all. I often just go with the surface left by the planner.

As for the speed reducer unless your doing a lot of large turning I'm not sure what you are going to use it for. I sounds nice but in 30+ years I haven't needed to go slower than my Shopsmith turns or at least I didn't know I needed to.

I really really like my 520 upgrade and I regret not doing it much much sooner.
Ed

[edflorence]

Hi Ed;

Thanks for the detailed reply. I appreciate the time and thought you put into your answers. I will start looking for good deals at Lowes. There is one in Coeur d'Alene, about 50 miles down the road from me, but we get all the ads up here. Likewise, there is a HD right in my town and I will start watching for sales there as well.

I agree with you completely about the bandsaw and jointer. They have been part of my Shopsmith setup for years, along with the DC3300 dust collector. I like the idea of the SS planer for a few reasons: first, the three blade cutter head and second, the variable speed capability if you mount it on the MkV and finally, the independent feed motor. You raise a good point about the weight, though, and it is one I have thought a lot about. I could mount the planer on a power stand and avoid the lifting issue, but then I would lose the variable speed, so why not go with a bench top DeWalt? I still have not completely decided this one.

My random orbit sander sees a lot of use, and honestly I probably can get by without a belt sander. The strip sander looks good for sharpening, but I think I have all the sharpening gear I need, so until I see some other need for it, the strip sander is down a ways on the wish list. I am like you in that if I do a good job planing, the sanding is minimal. My planing has been with hand tools, though, up to this time and I am planning some bigger projects in the future and I would prefer to power plane them. I have done some large cupboards but I used veneered plywood for the carcases on those, so planing big pieces was not an issue. I would say that a planer is probably the number one item on the wish list right now. If I do go with a benchtop model, I like the idea of mounting it on a roll-around cart as you did.

I have used the SS in the lathe mode quite a bit, mostly for spindle turning, but some for bowls and plates. The speed reducer would allow me to fool around with odd shaped burls and pieces of root that I find in the woods around the house. True, I don't "need" this tool, but it sure sounds like fun. And if it turns out that burl bowls sell well, then perhaps I'll wind up with enough $ for that new 520!

Ed
Idaho Panhandle
MkV 500/505

[Ed in Tampa]

[quote="edflorence"]Hi Ed]

Ed
In all honesty unless your into some really narley wood variable speed is mostly sales hype. Like I said I have the Delta two speed but I usually keep it on the fastest feed rate. I can not tell a difference other than the wood comes out slower. I have played with both the Shopsmith and the Dewalt and again I can't tell you I see a difference in planning quality at the different speeds.

That said let me qualify it, I did see a guy with some weird wood (I think from South America) that almost exploded unless feed very slow. That convinced me to get a two speed. However a master craftsman came over watched what was going on and shook his head. He later (many months and after I bought my planner) took a piece of the same wood and showed me how to plane. First he honed the blades (major improvement) second he feed the wood through with the wood slightly turned and lastly he ever so slightly dampened the wood before he attempted to plane it. His finished product was far better than we were getting running the plane on the slowest feed rate and his was on the fastest setting. It was all technique.

He also showed me that many people fault the planner for poor chip collection. If a chip falls on the wood before the pressure roller it makes a mark that looks very similar to chip out. This master craftsman repeatedly told me to insure my chips were clearing the machine or I would have problems.
Ed

[edflorence]

Ed
In all honesty unless your into some really narley wood variable speed is mostly sales hype. Like I said I have the Delta two speed but I usually keep it on the fastest feed rate. I can not tell a difference other than the wood comes out slower. I have played with both the Shopsmith and the Dewalt and again I can't tell you I see a difference in planning quality at the different speeds.

That said let me qualify it, I did see a guy with some weird wood (I think from South America) that almost exploded unless feed very slow. That convinced me to get a two speed. However a master craftsman came over watched what was going on and shook his head. He later (many months and after I bought my planner) took a piece of the same wood and showed me how to plane. First he honed the blades (major improvement) second he feed the wood through with the wood slightly turned and lastly he ever so slightly dampened the wood before he attempted to plane it. His finished product was far better than we were getting running the plane on the slowest feed rate and his was on the fastest setting. It was all technique.

He also showed me that many people fault the planner for poor chip collection. If a chip falls on the wood before the pressure roller it makes a mark that looks very similar to chip out. This master craftsman repeatedly told me to insure my chips were clearing the machine or I would have problems.
Ed

Hi Ed-

You present some really great ideas...thanks for taking the time to post them. Your experience with planing difficult wood is an eye-opener. I will keep it in mind when I finally make my choice.

Ed
Idaho Panhandle
Mkv 500/505

[dusty]

ed, are you sure that you lose variable speed cabability when you mount the planer on its own power stand.

I don't think so!