Shopsmith Forums

Gene Howe wrote:I'm not a fan, at all. In fact, if I can find mine, I'll be glad to permanently loan it.

You can loan it to me, Gene, and that way should you ever need it it is almost immediately available.

I made a pilgrimage trip to Shopsmith in Dayton back in 2007 to pick up a scroll saw I won on Ebay from a guy who told me the store was open to make sure I stopped at the retail store. Well, I learned the retail store once I got to Poe St or Ave that the store had closed a while ago and was being used as a set for the Saw Dust Sessions Nick Engler & Drew used to produce on Saturdays back then.

I managed to get in the factory through the side door as I had driven several hundred miles and needed a rest room. I was then greeted by one of the Customer Service ladies- it may have been Jan- I don't recall. I explained why I was there and learned the store was closed but Nick was there and might be able to answer any questions I might have as I had seen the episode of him using the strip sander for sharpening and he finished with a leather strop belt which I was unable to locate. I'm embarrassed to say I had only seen Nick on the videos and knew little of his background. I've since purchased a copy of every book he ever authored.

Sure enough, Nick greeted me and I told him my dilemma and he told me Shopsmith didn't sell the leather belts, but said he knew the guy who made them & we called him as Nick knew Dick had 1 or 2 extra belts the last time Nick had visited Dick. Dick Belcher is his name and he has a web site Belcher Supply or something like that. After that phone call, I ordered a belt and some honing compound once I got home.

So after that Nick showed me how to do the hammer twirling trick he would often do on the beginning or the end of the show. Then he asked me if I wanted a sharpening lesson/demo on the strip sander and follow-up a tour of the factory. My trip was not in vain. I was amazed he dropped whatever he was doing to make my trip one I'd never forget.

It was amazing what after using the fine grit belt did to a dulled edge wood chisel. One critical thing Nick pointed out was to have a small container of water to dip the chisel in to prevent losing the temper and simply take my time. The edge was really sharp. Then Nick put on the leather strop belt and a little compound. The end result was that chisel had a razor edge & would cut thin end-grain slices off a scrap piece of oak or some other hardwood which was laying around like a hot knife in butter. He let me sharpen my pocket knife and the polished edge was then sharper than any blade I had ever sharpened on any type of stone. I ended up a couple years ago buying a used Tormek T-7 with a Japanese 4,000 grit wheel and I've been using it since I have no room to get even near one of my Shopsmiths.

I ended up buying a strip sander that day and saved on not having to pay postage...<smile> We then went into the factory and stopped at every station from the start to the shipping area. The factory was huge, but the economy and few people were no longer buying new Shopsmiths from the company resulted in only half of a once completely utilized factory building from being used. Everybody- including myself for the most part were buy used Shopsmiths or SPTs off of Ebay or Craig's List.

For some crazy reason, Shopsmith had struck a deal with Lowes to have demo guys set up in the Lowes store and have customers watch & perhaps use the tools. I went to the Lowes by me and spent a couple of hours with the demo guy using the lathe function and other functions I wasn't familiar with. During that time, not another person even stopped for a second to watch and we were right by the front door. It was around 1 P.M. on a Saturday & the demo guy asked me if I would watch the stuff while he went out to get something for lunch. I had it all to myself, but I spent the time going through the literature and other manuals that were there. During that time, not one person stopped. I was afraid Shopsmith was gonna bite the big one, so I bought enough spare parts to rebuild all my headstocks and other goodies when they went on sale.

I found it amazing how I knew of one guy in Philadelphia who was selling used Shopsmith parts on Ebay and doing amazingly well. In several cases, bidders would actually bid/pay more for the used parts he had cleaned up & sold than Shopsmith was selling brand new items on sale for a cheaper price. It seemed like no one knew about the Shopsmith web site or that Shopsmith had weekly sales. I think he had more used Shopsmith parts in his basement and throughout his home than Shopsmith had in the factory. Why? He kept an eye open for any used Shopsmith that was being sold & then broke them down, cleaned them up, took a picture of the item sitting on the dryer in his basement with a white sheet for a background and raked in the dough. He didn't bother with the way tubes as the shipping costs were too much. They were in a huge pile on his front porch. It seemed like Shopsmith missed a huge opportunity that several people throughout the country I had purchased from or knew of who were making a good income from selling Shopsmith parts- everyone except Shopsmith- ironic.

I finally got over my Shopsmith addiction as I ran out of room. Last time I was in Florida, I stopped by Bill Mayo's place outside of Tampa and all I can say is Wow! He has a huge building/warehouse filled with more Shopsmith stuff than anyone else I know, complete with stations to totally rebuild/refurbish/modify Shopsmiths or there is a Shopsmith look-alike he does as well. But I imagine Shopsmith has much more overhead than these guys scattered around the country. I hope they are no longer struggling to stay in business as one of the few U.S. manufacturers of woodworking tools. It also doesn't help that many high schools around the country eliminated shop classes. But fortunately there are enough people like you guys and myself who still purchase from the factory when they have sales.

When I went out to Dayton and had my tour I asked many questions and certain questions were either avoided or not answered which seemed odd. I working as an electrical engineer at the time and believed, as did many of you on the forum, believed a new headstock might just be the answer to improving business as there are thousands of used Shopsmiths still being used & aching for a modern electronic headstock with more power. I found a source of 1.5 hp DC motors which fit perfectly on the motor plate on a 10E/ER and I used a PWM- pulse width modulator as my speed control. I saw one guy had modified a Mark V Model 500 or 510 headstock to accept a DC motor, but I was unable to contact him to ask some questions of how modified the shaft for the motor sheaves. Anyhow I bought one of the first 10 PowerPros and still haven't had time to mount it yet as our home is still under renovation and my wood workshop area is full of furniture. But I suppose if I would get off the computer and writing mini-books, I'd get more work done.... But I can't wait to get back to making wood chips once more now that I have a wood workshop with a 100 amp service. One of these days...

My view people over think the sharping process. A tool just needs to be sharp, not look like a factory finish done on expensive computer controlled equipment.

We had a maintenance guy at work that was retired from a machine shop. he could sharpen anything on a 6" harbor freight bench grinder without any kind of sharping guide. All free hand. Came out crazy sharp.

Yes, but that was a professional that had the muscle memory rquired for such sharpening.

I sharpen my planes as needed I can go more than a year with out sharpening a plane. A jig is very helpful in getting the angle correct.

I can tell you from experience that hand controlled edge tools (bench chisels, planes, etc.) perform so much better with that mirror finish achieved through honing. Whether you get that honing by using a machine or by hand is irrelevant, what matters is that highly polished edge FOR HAND POWERED ITEMS. As stated previously, I gave up on finely honing my lathe chisels as I would rather turn wood than sharpen, I can get them sharp enough on on my 1 inch strip sander with 220 belt. I also would not hone jointer knives as they would lose that hone within seconds of contacting wood at the speeds they operate.

I have been asked what sharpening equipment I have. I feel certain this list will leave items out. Shopsmith Strip Sander, The sharpening guide, sanding disks, all of which offer me nothing but frustration when attempting to sharpen anything. Water stones which I have found work reasonably well for flat tools. Sandpaper for sharpening requires a much softer touch than I seem capable of. Last night I read an article that offered part of the answer why I do not like them for lathe and carving tools, they clearly seem softer than oil stones. Which incidentally is the experience that forced me to revisit my understanding or lack thereof on certain types of sharpening. Numerous sizes stones of varying hardness, I have limited success with them in certain applications. I do have and enjoy using the work sharp 3,000 for knives and many flat blades. Most success with sharpening is with my power grinder which offers me great success when used with the wolverine guides. I also have a couple of pinnacle guides which I am attempting to master now.

All of this brings me back to the areas of sharpening I desire to improve on. One is the belief the grinder sharpens very fast I feel I may be wasting valuable steel. Thus I am looking as using stones for honing rather than always heading to the grinder. I have first hand knowledge that water stones are softer than oil stones and prone to groving especially if using with curved or sharp edged tools like carving chisels. I am currently considering a recommendation from Chris Pye to try Arkansas oil stones for both sharpening and honing. I find he is also suggesting some new stones carrying his name, check this link http://www.robcosman.com/tools_sharpening.php

I agree there are many opinions on sharpening. I thought for awhile I wanted to go with Diamond stones. I tried to buy one locally yesterday. The retailer had discontinued them and offered a sample for me to try. So far I am not impressed. Last nights article raised the question of diamond stones being used dry and possible contamination of shavings which could dull or damage the item being sharpened. The author continued by suggesting that use of oil or water both on stone and tool being sharpened washes away potential contamination. Also the importance of wiping water away from tool and lubricating with oil to prevent rust. This moments conclusion is oil stones. It's odd but many years ago I had and used a hard Arkansas stone I inherited from my father. That stone had been misused for a couple of generations. I was totally unaware one could flatten it and gave it away. I do appreciate all of the thoughts offered by each of you and will continue offering questions and my observations. Jim

Good thread! I learned some things! My experience has been that if you ask 10 woodworkers about sharpening, you will get at least 15 opinions! I am still trying to learn one way, and I must say it is one of the more challenging skills I have tried to learn. I am using a plate glass with sandpaper. I can take a dull chisel and make it cut wood reasonable well, but I just sigh when i hear about "shaving the hair on my arm" I have a good selection of used and abused tools to practice on.

There are many good books on the subject. One I just dug out was written by Ron Hock. The title is, "The Perfect Edge." I believe Ron has captured just about everything on sharpening for beginners as of the 2009 edition of this book. I just noticed a special planer cutter that uses 4-sided carbide cutter inserts in a helical patter around the cutter. It supposed will last quite a long time- at last 4 times longer as when one cutter gets dull, you simply loosen it, rotate it 90 degrees and you're back in business.

So I wondered if Shopsmith would ever make one??? <smile> I'm not sure how many out there in Shopsmith land actually use a Shopsmith planer. I have a stand-alone one which I had to put casters on as it quite heavy and reminded me at times of someone scratching fingernails on a black board. My father purchased in the mid-80's and used it once to plane down 5 long boards on a picnic table. He forgot though to check for metal and damaged the blades. But that planer still works after I upgraded it.

Ron Hock is the owner of Hock tools and I would consider him an expert in tool making and used to work with the late James Krenov making plane irons for him. He also makes a kit for people who want to make their own planes.

I appreciate whoever raised this issue again as it gave me an excuse to find this book and look at the many aspects involved in achieving a sharp edge. I just noticed he didn't include any of the sharpening tools made by Shopsmith in this edition of his book...<lol>.

But if you are really interested in learning the basics and some, this is one book I would definitely recommend.

For a newbie sharpener, there is too much information here to process and too many things to buy-and-try.
How about a task focused sharpening session with pics, a tutorial. I'm not sure about everyones interests, but I'm needing help with the basics of sharpening my standard SS lathe tools.
I have not purchased anything yet so guidence seems essential to me.
I am somewhat interested in the strip sander and leather follow up.

I feel the need to mention here that a lot of the sharpening technique used and the level of finish wanted is related to what you are cutting. Just as an example I spent some of my early years of working off of the farm working in the "cutting department" of a local factory. Our plant was concerned mostly with plastic film conversion, mostly vinyls and polyethylene. When cutting through maybe 300 to 400 layers of tightly stacked vinyl film you wanted a finely honed edge on your knives. The same sized stack of polyethylene on the other hand cut much faster if your blades were sharpened with a bit of "tooth" to the edge.
In the 20+ years I owned the shoe repair shop I kept a whole herd of knives, each with its own purpose and each with its own sharpening technique to fit. Cutting there was of course about 99% leather and rubber.
mrhart's mention of a "leather follow up" just reminded me that I will need to make a leather wheel to use on a few of my knives. On my old sanding machine (shoe-finisher) I used to touch up some of my knives using the back of one of the leather flat drive belts on the machine with a little compound applied. It just hit me that the new machine for the western boot shop is all rubber vee-belt drive... No place to hone.

I once read in a scientific article that when you cut something you do not split the molecules it is made of. It said that the cutting edge just separates them as it moves through and each molecule remains intact. If it didn't stay intact it would become something else... After reading that I started jokingly referring to my knives as "molecular separators".

.

Prior to beginning this thread I invested a lot of time in trying different sharpening methods. I have read Two books on carving and sharpening written by Chris Pye. I have Ron Hock's book The Perfect Edge. I find some of his writing hard to follow yet agree there is a great deal of top drawer information in the publication. The best single piece of information so far is a DVD by Chris Pye titled Woodcarving, 1. Sharpening Techniques. Chris is some teacher. I discovered much that was never explained by others in DVD's and books. Between all of the reading and watching I decided to take the next step in building my sharpening station. Yesterday I ordered:
[font=&quot]ULTOIL[/font]
[font=&quot]Ultimate Oil Stone Kit[/font]
[font=&quot]64728[/font]
[font=&quot]Sculpture Slip Stone Kit[/font]
[font=&quot]64732[/font]
[font=&quot]Slip Stone Kit #1[/font]
from Sharpeningsupplies.com This will afford me the oil stones I have decided to incorporate into my sharpening station and two sets of slip stones I believe will be valuable for curved turning and carving tools. I sincerely appreciate all who have responded to my sharpening thread and promise as I move along with the process to provide updates, yeah even a picture or two. As an aside, I am a guy who for many years took great pictures of everything imaginable. So far I still detest loading pictures onto the computer and downsizing them to fit the size restrictions. Sorry about that. Thanks again to all who have offered thoughts for this thread. Jim