Shopsmith Forums

fiatben wrote:Thanks JPG for searching this out for us. It certainly was not making much sense to me until your last post. Now I have one more item to add to my list for realignment after reassembly. And I can see now where this could be very important for lathe operations using the tailstock, which is one of the primary functions for which I intend to use my Lady Green.

Very good conclusion!

If the way tubes be twisted(albeit very slightly) the headstock center (spindle) would rotate away from the tail stock center axis as it is moved along the ways.

This a quite nit-pickey detail since the further away from the tail stock center the headstock is located, the less the twist effect matters.

OK, so I've started prepping the legs for repaint. I thought I'd try naval jelly on the rust rather than taking a wire wheel to these relatively large pieces. I'm not sure if I'm doing this right, nor am I entirely sure what I should expect to see, but ....
[ATTACH]8840[/ATTACH]
the leg on the left has been "prepped" with naval jelly, the one of the right is just as it came from the bench.

What I did: I took Scotchbrite and "sanded" the entire piece, especially the heaviest rust to remove the loosest stuff. Then I applied naval jelly with a brush, worked it in a bit and then carried it to a hose in the yard to wash it all off. The instructions on the bottle do not say how long to let it sit, but do warn that the paint will come off fairly quickly (which would be OK with me). I'd estimate 5 minutes of soaking before washing off. I then did a 2nd coat on part of the inside just to see if it made any difference (none that I could tell).

However, true to the warning, it will begin to remove paint.
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Should i expect to see shiny metal where rust was, or does it somehow oxidize it to a blacker form?

Am I doing too much prep? I read somewhere that farmer hits it with a grill brush and paint. That sounds pretty good to me. This is meant to be a nice looking working machine, not a museum showpiece.

This reminds me of remodeling an old house which I did one time (but never twice)....

I'm guessing the switch has been replaced which would explain all the electrical tape that was wrapped around it and the wiring when I disassembled my greenie.

This conclusion is based on this....
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This is a three-position switch, off in the middle and on at either end of the throw, but one of the "ON" lugs has been broken off.

Obviously, I will be replacing this switch, even though it actually works OK like this.

fiatben wrote:OK, so I've started prepping the legs for repaint. I thought I'd try naval jelly on the rust rather than taking a wire wheel to these relatively large pieces. .......

Should i expect to see shiny metal where rust was, or does it somehow oxidize it to a blacker form?

Am I doing too much prep? I read somewhere that farmer hits it with a grill brush and paint. That sounds pretty good to me. This is meant to be a nice looking working machine, not a museum showpiece.

I had zero luck with navel jelly. I ended out sanding mine.

Whether or not your doing too much prep I can't answer. I don't know how hammered paint holds up over rust. I do know however that you CAN'T use primer for rust with hammered paint.

fiatben wrote:OK, so I've started prepping the legs for repaint. I thought I'd try naval jelly on the rust rather than taking a wire wheel to these relatively large pieces. I'm not sure if I'm doing this right, nor am I entirely sure what I should expect to see, but ....
[ATTACH]8840[/ATTACH]
the leg on the left has been "prepped" with naval jelly, the one of the right is just as it came from the bench.

What I did: I took Scotchbrite and "sanded" the entire piece, especially the heaviest rust to remove the loosest stuff. Then I applied naval jelly with a brush, worked it in a bit and then carried it to a hose in the yard to wash it all off. The instructions on the bottle do not say how long to let it sit, but do warn that the paint will come off fairly quickly (which would be OK with me). I'd estimate 5 minutes of soaking before washing off. I then did a 2nd coat on part of the inside just to see if it made any difference (none that I could tell).

However, true to the warning, it will begin to remove paint.
[ATTACH]8842[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH]8843[/ATTACH]

Should i expect to see shiny metal where rust was, or does it somehow oxidize it to a blacker form?

Am I doing too much prep? I read somewhere that farmer hits it with a grill brush and paint. That sounds pretty good to me. This is meant to be a nice looking working machine, not a museum showpiece.

Ah yes! Another example of the mysterious running rust stains on the inside of the ss legs.

IMHO this is a candidate for 'electrolytic' rust and paint removal!

However to answer your ????, naval jelly does not act that fast, nor IMHO as well as other methods(electrolysis, evaporust). Keep in mind naval jelly is mostly phosphoric acid(also found in certain soft drinks). As such is not friendly to flesh. I have little experience with it since I was not satisfied with results obtained. I think it does ok on light surface rust, but once the pitting starts, it is less effective(Works on thin rust, but not so well on thicker rust). I do not recall blox forming when I used it.

At this point I would knock off the top of what rust is left, and soak a part of it in evaporust at a time. It works in a much faster time frame, but ain't cheap nor too fond of being in the open air. It WILL get down into the bottom of the pitting. It WILL create a thin coating of blox.

BTW blox = iron Black Oxide.

JPG40504 wrote:Ah yes! Another example of the mysterious running rust stains on the inside of the ss legs.........

For the record.....view of mystery drips
https://forum.shopsmith.com/viewtopic.php?p=42973&highlight=mystery#post42973

I agree that I didn't leave the naval jelly on long enough the first time. So, I applied a liberal coat before heading into town on some errands and went about my business. When i came back (probably 4 hours or more) it had pretty much dried, so following directions I wiped on more to soften/dissolve it. Then it was back out to the stump with a hose to wash it off. I also scrubbed it with a Scotchbrite pad while rinsing it off. This is the result...
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As advertised, it will take off paint, and it did a pretty good job of it, but I'm still not too happy with the rust removal aspect of it.

This rust is pitted pretty deep. I'm at a decision point. I don't want to spend a lot of money, or a lot of time and effort (hand sanding) to get a fresh, smooth bare metal surface I can prime and paint. Still, I don't want the rust "drips" to be real noticeable. Of course, this is on the inside of the legs. The outsides are fairly clean, only a small amount of rusting.
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Howsomeever, I was kinda impressed with what it did on the end of my bench tube.
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Since I am the only person who will be looking at this from only inches away, I'm kinda at the point of saying "how will it look from 10' away" and "good enough is good enough," but I always welcome all your comments.

mickyd wrote:Whether or not your doing too much prep I can't answer. I don't know how hammered paint holds up over rust. I do know however that you CAN'T use primer for rust with hammered paint.

I have found that deciding on a paint scheme may be the hardest part of all this. I looked at the hammered paints, liked them, appreciated that it could basically make it look original, didn't want the hassle of trying to get local big box to special order verde green and finally decided that this is my toy for my shop for my use and enjoyment, so it is OK to be a bit different and, well, we'll see what you guys think when it's done.