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Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 5:12 pm
by mickyd
tom_k/mo wrote:I had an idea ............
What if you took a 5 gallon metal bucket and used that as the container/tank AND electrode? I know you'd have to sand or sandblast any protective coating off the inside of the bucket, and you would have to be careful that your part was hanging/suspended in the solution and didn't touch the bottom, but it seems as if you'd get good current flow and rust removal on ALL sides equally and it would make wiring that electrode extremely easy.
100% ok way to do it
with the following precaution. As Heath mentioned, the bucket WILL develop a leak at some
unpredictable point in time. When I do it like this, I put the bucket inside a larger container that is
filled with water. The reason I fill it with water is
WHEN the inside sacrificial one (anode + charge) springs a leak, the water level in your electrolysis bucket won't drop.
When the inside one springs the leak, don't use it as a bucket anymore. Cut it up and use it as sheet metal.
Also, avoid using a galvanized bucket. The zinc used to galvanize will end up in the broth making it environmentally less friendly to dispose of.
Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 5:29 pm
by mickyd
pennview wrote:While on the subject of things to not do, here a couple of additional things I've come across that one should avoid.
Don't use Stainless Steel as the anode attached to the positive lead as it contains chromium. The electrolysis process slowly erodes the chromium and the result is that chromates end up in your electrolyte. These are highly toxic. Yellow electrolyte is a sign of chromates. You'll end up with hazardous waste.
Stainless Steel also contains nickel and washing soda (sodium carbonate) can dissolve nickel and the resulting nickel carbide is extremely poisonous / toxic. Moreover, one should also not clean parts that contain nickel or that are nickel plated. All nickel compounds are toxic and some acutely poisonous. More hazardous waste.
Also the electrolysis process produces hydrogen and oxygen and therefore de-rusting should be done outside.
Very good points to hammer home. Stainless is frequently used by folks that don't know any better. It lasts so much longer than carbon steel but as you mentioned, the chrome leaches out and the electrolyte is no longer environmentally
or contact friendly. Baking / washing soda remains friendly throughout the process. You still don't want to have it in prolonged contact with you skin though due to the PH level (drying to the skin) but it is isn't poisonous.
Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 9:46 am
by hohenfelsjoe
dusty wrote:Mickyd informed us that this electrolyte we are using and copper are not compatible. I read that but I did not heed. Today, I put another of my rusty swivel caster into the electrolysis process.
Everything was the same except that I changed leads. The ones I used this time had copper alligator clips and I attached one of them to the rusty item and submerged it.
The resulting foam was the rest indication that something was different. It was a different color. But, the real difference became apparent when I removed the item from the solution a couple hours later. The deposit was nasty and the rusted item is not near as clean. I'll redo the process to see if I ruined a caster but---
DO NOT SUBMERGE COPPER INTO THE ELECTROLYSIS SOLUTION!!!!!
I have been using Copper plated electrodes for a lot of my Electrolysis needs. I notice I get the blue foam indicating copper sulfate, instead of the standard orange. I have not had any issues using the copper. I usually wipe down and prime within 2 days, no fuss no rust.
After wipe off:
Reason for Edit: changed from https to http on the image URL. Thanks Mickyd
Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 10:43 am
by mickyd
dusty wrote:Mickyd informed us that this electrolyte we are using and copper are not compatible. ......
DO NOT SUBMERGE COPPER INTO THE ELECTROLYSIS SOLUTION!!!!!
Just noticed your post you made back in April. What I was referring to is using copper submerged in the solution as the
negative lead connected directly to the part your derusting. It's not a compatability issue, it's just that I've read copper will corrode used when used as the cathode (- charge). Steel corrodes VERY slowly when used (since it's in water).
mickyd wrote:It ok to submerge the copper lead as long as you view the copper as sacrificial as you said. There is nothing hazardous.....it just corrodes the copper over time.
....................
Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 10:48 am
by mickyd
hohenfelsjoe wrote:I have been using Copper plated electrodes for a lot of my Electrolysis needs. I notice I get the blue foam indicating copper sulfate, instead of the standard orange. I have not had any issues using the copper. I usually wipe down and prime within 2 days, no fuss no rust.
photos removed....
After wipe off:
What kind of longevity do you get out of your copper anode (+ charge)? When I use carbon steel sheet metal, it lasts about 48 hours before I start to see pinholes developing.
Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 11:01 am
by hohenfelsjoe
mickyd wrote:Just noticed your post you made back in April. What I was referring to is using copper submerged in the solution as the negative lead connected directly to the part your derusting. It's not that it's not compatible, it just that I've read that the copper will corrode used when used as the cathode (- charge). Steel corrodes VERY slowly when used (since it's in water).
OK, I sometimes use a copper wire to 'help' hold the item I am working on. I have not noticed anything odd. but then again, I have not been looking....
mickyd wrote:What kind of longevity do you get out of your copper anode (+ charge)? When I use carbon steel sheet metal, it lasts about 48 hours before I start to see pinholes developing.
I have used the same copper anodes for the entire project, the couple of times I did not use them was for the way tubes and a couple others, then I used re-bar. I will wipe one of the copper anodes this evening and take a picture and post. I usually just wipe and re-use. I would say at least 5 days so far; 5ish items for at least 24 hours each. Lets see how the pictures look this evening
Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 11:14 am
by mickyd
[quote="hohenfelsjoe"]OK, I sometimes use a copper wire to 'help' hold the item I am working on. I have not noticed anything odd. but then again, I have not been looking....
I have used the same copper anodes for the entire project, the couple of times I did not use them was for the way tubes and a couple others, then I used re-bar. I will wipe one of the copper anodes this evening and take a picture and post. I usually just wipe and re-use. I would say at least 5 days so far]
Is it solid copper or copper tubing?
Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 11:35 am
by hohenfelsjoe
mickyd wrote:Is it solid copper or copper tubing?
It is copper plated. I picked it up from HD, it was an eight foot grounding rod:
Here is a cross section:
Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 1:50 pm
by JPG
It be 'Copperweld' grounding rod.
I assume the last pix are 'before' 5 days use?
Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 1:58 pm
by hohenfelsjoe
JPG40504 wrote:It be 'Copperweld' grounding rod.
I assume the last pix are 'before' 5 days use?
Oh yea... I will have the 'afters' in a bit