Shopsmith Forums

John, looks like I'll have to spend some time researching the offerings by EZ, as well as those offered by Festool and Tracksaw, so I'll at least know what the capabilities of these systems are.

pennview wrote:John, looks like I'll have to spend some time researching the offerings by EZ, as well as those offered by Festool and Tracksaw, so I'll at least know what the capabilities of these systems are.

Way to go thats the best thing to do be safe.

bigjohn1 wrote:Hi everyone you may not want to hear from me and we will try and stay quite yes for me that's very hard. I have been told in pm's to go back where I came and thats ok but for the ones that would like good information about a system that can do just what you asked here.

1. Your best place to go and spend sometime and really look around is eurekazone.com and then there forum watch some videos on just what you ask don't take it from me first hand.

2. They have a tool called the ripsizer for ripping long boards to width not just plywood but thats its main purpose.

3. For all you cabinet makers out there they have a tool called the cabinet maker witch is a square,Track,and a repeater all in one where you set your size once and cut as many as you like to that size.

4. Then they have the EZ-One withch has a bridge and opens a whole new world to the woodworker.

5. They have a smart table that every woodworker needs and should have this is one sweet Idea and for 65 bucks to make one with there kit you can't go wrong.

6. they also have the best router system going can setup many ways even as a tunnel router setup that is way cool. Like I said its a system and takes time to learn what they have and what the tools can do but first off makes woodworking very safe for new and old.

Add this system to your shopsmith and there is nothing you can't do. to tell you the truth its made very well and quality is very good.

So sorry to all that I upset at the start of this all but things happen at times and thats how I felt even If I may have gone about it the wrong way.

Practice and enjoy John.....

Sorry if you have been stoned by way of PMs. I prefer a more direct/public approach, but have not seen a need to go further than I already have. I am sure anyone with your demeanor can handle a little heat! Maybe those PMs are the reason for much of your defensiveness.

Your major sin is your enthusiasm for Eureka.

I have watched all the videos 'over there'.

My previous comments are based on what I saw.

I think all track saws/straight edges with 'skill saw'(to me a circular saw includes a TS and a hand saw includes early disston models))are potentially safer than a TS, but I am unconvinced the system demonstrated is a total replacement for a TS. Durability and repeatability are not demonstrated IMHO.

Like most over zealous sales persons, Dino is selective regarding what is shown. His enthusiasm is understandable. Not sure I understand yours.

You do not deserve to be stoned(jabbed perhaps;)).

I think one of the reasons for preferring track saw/guides is the elimination of having to manhandle the large heavy workpieces(sheet goods) while performing the cutting. That in itself is a safety improvement. They also make sawing a one person operation.

P.S. And we thought a SS was expensive! Price out a 'complete Eureka system' and all those 'add ons'.

[quote="JPG40504"]Sorry if you have been stoned by way of PMs. I prefer a more direct/public approach, but have not seen a need to go further than I already have. I am sure anyone with your demeanor can handle a little heat! Maybe those PMs are the reason for much of your defensiveness.

Your major sin is your enthusiasm for Eureka.

I have watched all the videos 'over there'.

My previous comments are based on what I saw.

I think all track saws/straight edges with 'skill saw'(to me a circular saw includes a TS and a hand saw includes early disston models))are potentially safer than a TS, but I am unconvinced the system demonstrated is a total replacement for a TS. Durability and repeatability are not demonstrated IMHO.

Like most over zealous sales persons, Dino is selective regarding what is shown. His enthusiasm is understandable. Not sure I understand yours.

You do not deserve to be stoned(jabbed perhaps]

Thank JP for your input into this and your right you can use whats best for you no one tool can do anything I guess. Why I like the little guy because for over ten years he has been kicked around by the big guys in the pool and is still going could have quit long ago but he has a dream and a good one in my eyes and yes there are some cuts not worked out yet but I also can tell you there are pros over there that use the EZ-One every day and there unisaw are gone. It can do many cuts that you would not even do on a table saw not that I have had to do this. I could just sit back and say nothing your right but again we are just talking right you tell me how you feel I tell you how I feel most of the time good sometimes not so good. And because one more thing Dino does pass on a lot of info he don't really need to show us at all and is a nice feeling to know a genius at work there are not that many in his league. What he comes up with makes your chin drop and its so easy done when you see it thats why I feel the way I do.

As for the prices JP that is list price there are always discounts going. I have everything they make and have only spent 2000 dollars and If you think thats high check out Fesstool prices. What is a shopsmith going for now new 4,000 thats getting up there for a home hobby also.

This reminds me of the discussions regarding the Fein Multimaster and the subsequent machines (Dremel, Rockwell, Milwaukee) which entered the market. I do not have any issue with anyone coming out with a competitive product. Competition lowers price. For example, anyone here use generic prescriptions? Or do you insist the physician use the original formula to fill your prescription?

As I perceive this discussion, the more competition there is, the better products will become for all of us. According to what I've read, there is now a 30% sale by EZ for their product? I'd be willing to bet that wouldn't have happened without a competitor's product coming out.

BPR

p.s. sorry if my logic appears to be obtuse or convoluted. Just got done with picking, blanching and freezing this year's bounty from the garden and brother, am I tired!

ryanbp01 wrote:This reminds me of the discussions regarding the Fein Multimaster and the subsequent machines (Dremel, Rockwell, Milwaukee) which entered the market. I do not have any issue with anyone coming out with a competitive product. Competition lowers price. For example, anyone here use generic prescriptions? Or do you insist the physician use the original formula to fill your prescription?

As I perceive this discussion, the more competition there is, the better products will become for all of us. According to what I've read, there is now a 30% sale by EZ for their product? I'd be willing to bet that wouldn't have happened without a competitor's product coming out.

BPR

p.s. sorry if my logic appears to be obtuse or convoluted. Just got done with picking, blanching and freezing this year's bounty from the garden and brother, am I tired!

I do not see anything like that!:)

Done in the right way will have to live with thats how it goes but there is a little more to this story and how it came to be that was a little in bad taste.
I don't think using Drugs or oil companies and that sort because they rule the world anyway and is a shady business no matter how you slice it. They make more money then we can dream of we are talking about small to mid range business. As for EZ they always have sales going on because a lot of there sales are not within the USA and helps Off set the shipping charges that are very high. I can tell you USPS is a lot more fair then UPS that suck the life out of you with fees. Out of the USA that is in country may not be that bad.

bigjohn1 wrote:Done in the right way will have to live with thats how it goes but there is a little more to this story and how it came to be that was a little in bad taste.
I don't think using Drugs or oil companies and that sort because they rule the world anyway and is a shady business no matter how you slice it. They make more money then we can dream of we are talking about small to mid range business. As for EZ they always have sales going on because a lot of there sales are not within the USA and helps Off set the shipping charges that are very high. I can tell you USPS is a lot more fair then UPS that suck the life out of you with fees. Out of the USA that is in country may not be that bad.

So much for staying on topic!

[quote="tool72"]It has been an interesting 24 hours. I would like to answer some of the concerns and questions that you have posted, then hopefully we can move on to a discussion of what makes track saws great and why every woodworker needs one.

My partner and I first became aware of track saws several years ago when Festool first brought them into the U.S. After learning about EZ, we both felt that at the right price and with the right marketing, that EZ had the potential to become a very successful company. We met with Dino at the EZ factory one time for around 4 hours to explore ways we could work together to build the EZ brand. When we left, Dino gave us some track and plates to try out.

The reasons that we decided not to do business with Dino are not something that needs to be discussed on a forum. Let me say that we respect his inventive mind and I am sure he will continue to bring out more new products. I’d also like to add that if we’d wanted to just copy the EZ design we could have just ordered EZ products for far less than we spent traveling to visit Dino.

Festool designed & patented the first track saw back in the mid 1960’s, therefore ALL track saws since derive part of their design from the ideas first developed by Festool. The one thing that Dewalt, Makita, EZ and True Trac have in common is that we have all studied all of the existing designs and tried to improve on them when we developed our designs. Dino studied Festool and designed a better system. We studied Festool, DeWalt, Makita, & EZ and developed a better system. I want to emphasize that we have carefully studied all of the relevant patents and our design does not infringe upon anybody’s patents, including Dino’s.

A key area we focused on in our development efforts has been how the saw meets the track. As I stated in yesterday’s post, we spent much of our time, effort, and money on developing our own unique design of how the saw rides on the track. We feel we have developed much better interface that is truly unique. Our plate just locks onto the track with no wiggle and no binding. You must feel it for yourself to understand just how well it works.

A comment was made that if it took us 2 years to make a track, how long would it take us to add tools. I feel this in itself (2 years) shows that we were developing our own design, if all we wanted to do was knock off EZ we could have had a product on the market in 4 months, not 2 years. A complete line of accessories is in progress. We have also spent a lot of development time and testing to ensure our accessories will function perfectly.

Our soon to be released square is truly self-squaring. Once you tighten the attachment bolts, it is square. The design ensures that it can’t be anything except square. There is no need to ever adjust it or check it, although we encourage you to do so. Our repeater will set a new standard of functionality and ease of use. As for the clamps, no they will not be similar to the EZ system clamps. We decided the clamps currently on the market did not meet our expectations]

Are you truly dedicated to the people that buy your Track? It would be pretty cool, and would instill belief in your dedication, if you offered a money-back guarantee if you didn't produce your line of accessories within... say, 6 months to a year? Without some type of guarantee, it just seems to me that you're saying, we'll see how well the track sells. If it does, then we'll produce the accessories.

As is stands now, there is already a vast line up of upgrades with the EZ system. I'm just curious, why should I choose your track. Eurekazone's 54" system is only about $33 more, but it already comes with clamps. And the EZ Spartan, which is comparable to your starter kit, is actually cheaper, at $149. And that's not including the 30% off sale that starts tomorrow (8/7/11).

I have already invested some money into the EZ system. For me personally, I think you would need to offer some type of customer satisfaction/money-back guarantee, for me to consider switching to your product.

ryanbp01 wrote:This reminds me of the discussions regarding the Fein Multimaster and the subsequent machines (Dremel, Rockwell, Milwaukee) which entered the market. I do not have any issue with anyone coming out with a competitive product. Competition lowers price. For example, anyone here use generic prescriptions? Or do you insist the physician use the original formula to fill your prescription?

As I perceive this discussion, the more competition there is, the better products will become for all of us. According to what I've read, there is now a 30% sale by EZ for their product? I'd be willing to bet that wouldn't have happened without a competitor's product coming out.
BPR

p.s. sorry if my logic appears to be obtuse or convoluted. Just got done with picking, blanching and freezing this year's bounty from the garden and brother, am I tired!

Imagine if we set prices according to the capabilities and market control?
Actually the sale was for 40% before we even knew about SS.
We don't work like that.

Our big goal is to reduce the overall cost and our newest inventions
(Ripsizer-UEG) are designed to eliminate additional tracks, long tracks, repeaters and very soom even more of our own inventions ( repeaters)
that others copied and they use them for quick and easy profits.

In some cases our prices are double than our competition and in some almost half. We make everything in house and we price our tools according to cost of making. Not value pricing and not from competition "pressure"

To rip panels you only have to spend $150.00 now ( ripsizer )
instead of $600.00 few weeks ago, using the ez tracks and repeaters...
and even more using the festool tracks and their copy of the ez repeaters.

The good news here is our promise. If you spend $600.00 one year ago you can use all the ez-components to build many ez tools for free.
We make sure that all our tools are backwards and forward comparible...
for 10 years now.

If you can find any company that offers free upgrades to all the tools that they make and sell...please, let us know.
Here is a good example.
we sold 100's of powerbenches. Last month we stop the big sales to make and ship all latest upgrades for free. over $100.000.00 cost to eurekazone.
Not that we had to but it was the right thing to do.

Look at the ez forum and you will see that we delayed a 40% sale
in order to send all free upgrades first.
the sale now is 30% only due to the high cost of free upgrades.
After all, we have to balance the books and stay open for more future inventions that all retailers like to sell now.

Thanks to our customers.

ycf diono
eurekazone