Shopsmith Forums

As has already been pointed out, how the angle thingie is attached to that being measured will alter the indication.

Case in point: An almost vertical thing will indicate one angle > 90° on one side and an angle < 90°on the opposite side.

A spirit level does the same thing(bubble shifts to opposite side of the vial.

It is only at perpendicular that is does not matter which side is being 'measured'. However the cubes WILL display differently depending upon which side of the cube is closer to terra firma.

RFGuy wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 1:37 pm

DLB wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 1:31 pm Your Wixey appears to be the same as mine and would indicate angles greater than 90 degrees in numbers greater than 90. (Up to 180.) So at 89.5 degrees indicated it is not passing 90. (For sure, but ignoring the whole accuracy/resolution/repeatability thing.) This is one of the differences between the AngleCube and the Wixey. For a 0.5 degree difference, a bubble would confirm. You can also pull it gently back toward horizontal and see whether the numbers change toward 0, or toward 90.

- David

Yeah, I agree. I thought about adding this somehow in my previous post, but I didn't want to create more confusion if I didn't word it correctly. I am not familiar with the AngleCube, but I know my Wixey goes 0 to 180°, so if it shows 89.5° then it MUST be under-rotated there. Still, the washer experiment double confirms it. If it had been over-rotated with my Wixey it would have shown 90.5°, not 89.5°. So, the AngleCube only displays angles between 0-90°, is that correct?

Yes and No. The numbers are all between 0 and 90 but with the other notations and inverted numbers it is clear when you pass through vertical.

I had a Wixey long ago but I gave it up in favor of the AngleCube. I will have a Wixey tomorrow or next and then I shall see what I shall see. I am still not accepting the popular theory expressed in this thread.

I have a Craftsman bubble level/digital readout combination and it has not changed my position either.

I have two machines and two sets of parts to mock up for collaboration.

We will see what we will see.

Fergit the digital part and use the bubble. They do not lie!(mislead)

RFGuy wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 1:37 pm

DLB wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 1:31 pm Your Wixey appears to be the same as mine and would indicate angles greater than 90 degrees in numbers greater than 90. (Up to 180.) So at 89.5 degrees indicated it is not passing 90. (For sure, but ignoring the whole accuracy/resolution/repeatability thing.) This is one of the differences between the AngleCube and the Wixey. For a 0.5 degree difference, a bubble would confirm. You can also pull it gently back toward horizontal and see whether the numbers change toward 0, or toward 90.

- David

Yeah, I agree. I thought about adding this somehow in my previous post, but I didn't want to create more confusion if I didn't word it correctly. I am not familiar with the AngleCube, but I know my Wixey goes 0 to 180°, so if it shows 89.5° then it MUST be under-rotated there. Still, the washer experiment double confirms it. If it had been over-rotated with my Wixey it would have shown 90.5°, not 89.5°. So, the AngleCube only displays angles between 0-90°, is that correct?

What an anglecube displays as it approaches 90°, through 90° and beyond 90°.

First approaching 90° by rotating clockwise(same as Goldie pix above).
Then reaching 90° by slipping a tooth pick under the left bottom corner.
Note the display is still 'normal' orientation.

Then rotating a very small amount.
Note it still indicates 90° but the display is inverted and the arrows have reversed their indication, but their meaning is the same(up arrow high side/down arrow low side). The arrows are interpreted from the viewer's viewpoint reading the display with the values 'right side up'.(i.e ignore the fact that the display is inverted on the cube - read it 'normally'.)

Further rotation decreases the angle amount displayed.
The display is again inverted(upside down). This indicates an angle less than 90° that is the same as under 90° CCW rotation even though it was approached by rotating the cube CW. i.e. history is irrelevant - only angular direction from horizontal is indicated.

DLB wrote: ↑Tue Sep 07, 2021 11:29 am

dusty wrote: ↑Tue Sep 07, 2021 10:37 am

DLB wrote: ↑Tue Sep 07, 2021 9:50 am Both of my Marks are Double TIlt so I ignored those but I mocked this up on a Base Assembly with a couple of short tube scraps and I measured 90.0 degrees with my Wixie. This was a new style Base with the smaller diameter hinge bar and setscrews on the 'top.' Is this angle, and/or deliberate under- or over-rotation, something that was changed at some point? I'll look around for another Base to try this on...

- David

Are you saying that you get a reading of 90.0 degrees after zeroing on a Bench Tube.

Yes, I zeroed the Wixie on the Bench Tube and measured 90.0 on the Way Tube.

- David

This post along with the next one led to some of my misunderstanding of what is happening because I am unaccustomed to the Wixey These posts clearly indicate under rotation. With a Wixey, if you had passed through 90 degrees (vertical) you would have a reading greater than 90 degrees.

Hey product designers, you indicate tilt using a semi-circle with an arrow, or an even better clock-like graphic. The semi-circle doesn't add one cent to the cost of the product, it's just a different mask. I'll wait for a better generation of electronic angle devices. Really surprising that they are no better than this because they've been around for a while.

dusty wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 8:14 am

DLB wrote: ↑Tue Sep 07, 2021 11:29 am

dusty wrote: ↑Tue Sep 07, 2021 10:37 am

Are you saying that you get a reading of 90.0 degrees after zeroing on a Bench Tube.

Yes, I zeroed the Wixie on the Bench Tube and measured 90.0 on the Way Tube.

- David

This post along with the next one led to some of my misunderstanding of what is happening because I am unaccustomed to the Wixey These posts clearly indicate under rotation. With a Wixey, if you had passed through 90 degrees (vertical) you would have a reading greater than 90 degrees.

Critical 'detail' is the reference "Zero" was taken on the horizontal BENCH tube and 90° reading on the raised WAY tube. i.e. significant potential cause of error.

edma194 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 9:34 am Hey product designers, you indicate tilt using a semi-circle with an arrow, or an even better clock-like graphic. The semi-circle doesn't add one cent to the cost of the product, it's just a different mask. I'll wait for a better generation of electronic angle devices. Really surprising that they are no better than this because they've been around for a while.

I think the product designers did a decent job of attempting to bridge between the new thingie and the historical bubble level.

Had the symbols been different, the confusion prevalent in this thread would still have occurred.

However the wixey would indicate rotational 'history' from level and the anglecube more accurately current rotation from level.



What was the original subject matter of this thread?

JPG wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 9:37 am

dusty wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 8:14 am

DLB wrote: ↑Tue Sep 07, 2021 11:29 am Yes, I zeroed the Wixie on the Bench Tube and measured 90.0 on the Way Tube.

- David

This post along with the next one led to some of my misunderstanding of what is happening because I am unaccustomed to the Wixey These posts clearly indicate under rotation. With a Wixey, if you had passed through 90 degrees (vertical) you would have a reading greater than 90 degrees.

Critical 'detail' is the reference "Zero" was taken on the horizontal BENCH tube and 90° reading on the raised WAY tube. i.e. significant potential cause of error.

In my defense, that is exactly what the OP was looking for. My mock up didn't support lowering the way tubes to horizontal, and neither did his dedicated DP.

On machines where I did measure this, one DT and one standard, the difference between bench and way tubes was 0.2 degrees or less.

We always know what we meant, right? I still don't understand how this post led to some of Dusty's misunderstanding. (i.e. how does this post clearly indicate under rotation?) In hindsight I should have posted pictures.

- David

Fear not! There is far more than enough sources of confusion. Earlier 'assumptions' was the biggest contributor.

BTW Dusty is not alone.

Mis-interprteted pix are also a significant cause.




Now all that is left is to convince the nay-sayers.