3rd Generation Owner

tvidnoviciii · Post by **tvidnoviciii** » Tue Aug 20, 2013 12:14 pm

That orangeish stuff would be rust.

wa2crk · Post by **wa2crk** » Tue Aug 20, 2013 3:12 pm

Has the motor ever been wet? Water in the capacitor could produce a failure.
Also water in the bearings is not good. If the orange is rust, I would replace the bearings and make sure that the Centrifugal switch moves easily and does not hang up. A piece of 600 grit silicon carbide sandpaper put between the contacts to burnish them would be a good idea. IIWM I would replace the cap and the bearings and reassemble the motor and give it a smoke test. If all the smoke stays inside then all should be good.
Bill V

dusty · Post by **dusty** » Tue Aug 20, 2013 6:17 pm

[quote="tvidnoviciii"]So I took the front cover and rotor off the motor last night to get a look at the coils in the front of the motor. I've posted a couple more pics at http://www.flickr.com/photos/23959245@N05/sets/72157635121420237/. The most telling thing is that there appears to be some evidence of overheating in the coils that are at ~2:00 and 8:00. I assume those are the starting coils and may have either been affected by the explosion of the capacitor or a short in them is what caused the capacitor to explode. The heat related damage seems to be limited to some burnt cords and a blackening of the lacquer coating on the coils. I tested for shorts to the case and was not able to find one.

If the damage was caused by the capacitor, then replacing that item should fix the problem, however, I am worried about the functionality of the centrifugal switch. Is there any way to test it other than closing the circuit manually, which I've done?[/quote]

If the motor shop didn't think the centrifugal switch looked bad, I would not worry about that. But you asked if there was a way to test it other than manually. If you could spin the assembled motor up to run speed, you would be able to hear the centrifugal switch actuate (contacts open). Then when you remove the rotational force, you would again be able to hear the centrifugal switch deactuate (contacts close) when the motor gets below run speed.

I think you should install a new capacitor, carefully reassemble the motor, apply power and hold your breathe.

I think that it is going to run.

If it doesn't, you can ship it to me and I'll mate it with the bad one I have and see what happens.

JPG · Post by **JPG** » Tue Aug 20, 2013 11:19 pm

IIRC, the Emerson contacts are enclosed. Difficult to even 'see' them move let alone touch. Burnishing them is also 'difficult'. IIWM, I would 'test' them by inserting the armature(with start switch actuator etc.) into the end cap/bearing and manually move the ring to check opening/closing of the contacts.

I concur it appears to have been wet.

tvidnoviciii · Post by **tvidnoviciii** » Tue Aug 20, 2013 11:23 pm

I installed the new capacitor, started the motor up and it ran great. I let it run for a couple of minutes then I shut it off. As it was winding down, I hear the audible click of the centrifigual switch armature. I then came inside to get my iPad to take a video to post for all of you to show that it worked. When I restarted the motor, it had a vibration that it didn't have a minute earlier. I shut it off and repositioned the motor (it was resting on a slight slope). I also adjusted the floating sheave spring as it appeared out of line I also verified that all of the wires were out of the way of the rotor. I turned the motor back on and the vibration was still there. I resigned myself to taking it apart again to see if I could find the souce of vibration. As I was reaching for the switch to turn the motor off, it blew the new capacitor.

So it appears the motor is shot. I believe that the problem was/is the centrifugal switch armature is not functioning properly. The guy at the motor shop spent a minute or two to oiling and operating the armature to make sure it was working ok. I verified that it was functioning (by hand), but it seemed like it was not operating as smoothly as I would like, but I wasn't sure if that was a feature as the plastic retainer has a bit of a bulge to it.

Anyone have a good 1 1/8hp motor they'd be willing to part with?

JPG · Post by **JPG** » Tue Aug 20, 2013 11:31 pm

Pix?? The weight/ring assembly can be trickey(done incorrectly). Bulge may be normal.

billmayo · Post by **billmayo** » Tue Aug 20, 2013 11:43 pm

tvidnoviciii wrote:Anyone have a good 1 1/8hp motor they'd be willing to part with?

Please check your PM. I have a few Emersons that I cannot convert for reversible operation. I also have available reversible and/or 110/220 VAC Shopsmith motors. Thanks.

tvidnoviciii · Post by **tvidnoviciii** » Wed Aug 21, 2013 12:34 am

Thanks, Bill, I replied.

dusty · Post by **dusty** » Wed Aug 21, 2013 6:11 am

tvidnoviciii wrote:I installed the new capacitor, started the motor up and it ran great. I let it run for a couple of minutes then I shut it off. As it was winding down, I hear the audible click of the centrifigual switch armature. I then came inside to get my iPad to take a video to post for all of you to show that it worked. When I restarted the motor, it had a vibration that it didn't have a minute earlier. I shut it off and repositioned the motor (it was resting on a slight slope). I also adjusted the floating sheave spring as it appeared out of line I also verified that all of the wires were out of the way of the rotor. I turned the motor back on and the vibration was still there. I resigned myself to taking it apart again to see if I could find the souce of vibration. As I was reaching for the switch to turn the motor off, it blew the new capacitor.

So it appears the motor is shot. I believe that the problem was/is the centrifugal switch armature is not functioning properly. The guy at the motor shop spent a minute or two to oiling and operating the armature to make sure it was working ok. I verified that it was functioning (by hand), but it seemed like it was not operating as smoothly as I would like, but I wasn't sure if that was a feature as the plastic retainer has a bit of a bulge to it.

Anyone have a good 1 1/8hp motor they'd be willing to part with?

I am sorry to hear this. I was certain that you would recover from this by replacing the capacitor.

I read back through the thread looking for the start winding and run winding measurements. I did not find them.

Did you measure the DC resistance of the start winding (red to black) and the of the run winding (yellow to blue). I would expect the red to black reading to be in the vicinity of 5 ohms and the yellow to blue reading to be much lower (.3 to .5 ohms).

We know from your experience that the winding are not shorted to the case. We know that the windings are not open because the motor ran. We know that the centrifugal switch contacts were closed when off or the motor would not have started.

What we don't know is why the capacitor blew and we do not know if the centrifugal switch contacts opened when the motor reached run speed.

If the switch contacts never open.....what happens?

I would guess that the capacitor blew because.....the centrifugal switch did not open maybe.

Opps: There I go again. You are talking about a 1 1/8hp Emerson and I about a 3/4hp Emerson. The color of the wires may not be the same and the start windings may not be available for you to measure. Furthermore, I don't know that you have the same centrifugal switch mechanism as I do though it looks to be the same in your last picture posted on flickr.

JPG · Post by **JPG** » Wed Aug 21, 2013 8:36 am

The few that I have seen have identical start switch/mechanisms IIRC.