Shopsmith Forums

dusty wrote:Too late. I was trying to cleanup the wax string loops that I had put in and I broke the start winding right where it was spliced onto a piece of wire that goes to the start cap.

Now I have to deal with making a reliable connection on the varnished winding wire.

Somewhere in my stuff, I have crimp connectors but where. It may be Christmas before I locate those.

I do not use any crimp connectors or any kind of tape inside the motor. The heat tends to break down these these items over time. Only solder and shirk tubing inside the motor. I would get a cold solder type connection sometimes when using the crimp on connectors in the motor. I find I have to use a sharp knife and work to clean the varnish off the coil wire for soldering.

Dusty, use JPG reference for the insulating varnish as that is the brand I use. Should be available locally.

tvidnoviciii, please forgive me for having highjacked your thread. What I did here is really uncalled for. I should have initiated my own. Our two problems are only remotely related - the motor.

Dusty, no worries. The originating post was a duplicate of one in another thread anyway.

Like so many of my projects, this one has been set aside momentarily while I search for the package of heat shrinkable tubing. I have a handful of assorted sizes in a ziplock bag but I cannot locate it. I am resisting a "quick trip" to Radio Shack for more.

Organization is certainly in order. The shop has really gone to pot since I started the trailer project. Wood working, plumbing, electrical, air vents, toilets, roof top, floor covering, wall paneling, trailer brakes, marker lights,......

bill, et al - I just realized that my Crafter's Station wiring diagram does not include the start capacitor. Is the start capacitor in series with the start winding or is it shunted across the start winding?

dusty wrote:bill, et al - I just realized that my Crafter's Station wiring diagram does not include the start capacitor. Is the start capacitor in series with the start winding or is it shunted across the start winding?

The capacitor should be in series with the start winding. However, many wiring diagrams will draw the capacitor so it appears to be in a shunt position. However, I believe only the power to the start winding needs to phase shifted by the capacitor, not the run windings. My knowledge is self taught from actually working in motor repair shops, not from any book learning so I do not know what may be possible. I have not tried moving the capacitor connections around to different points to see what happens, maybe some day.

I am still learning motors as I find some induction motors operating with what I believe is a run winding (2 ohms) and a start winding (7 ohms) in parallel and the other run winding (2 ohms) in the start circuit. These motors operate with no problems. I still have difficultly sometimes wiring in start current relays that are used in place of the centrifugal switch.

I have been unable to find what I would call a OFF/ON/ON Momentary switch. Maybe they do not exist as I never found one. I would use the ON position to supply power to the run windings and ON Momentary position to suppy power to the start windings while keeping power to the run windings until the motor started at which time I would release the switch toggle handle back to the ON position. This could replace the centrifugal switch or start current relay for my testing purposes.

The start capacitor is in series with the start coil(s). The capacitor creates a phase shift in the coils. The polarity of the coils determines direction.

A start relay has normally closed contacts. The start relay coil is connected across the run(CORRECTION! START WINDINGS) winding(s). When the voltage across the run(START) coils is sufficient(counter emf), the relay picks and opens the contacts.

JPG40504 wrote:The start capacitor is in series with the start coil(s). The capacitor creates a phase shift in the coils. The polarity of the coils determines direction.

A start relay has normally closed contacts. The start relay coil is connected across the run winding(s). When the voltage across the run coils is sufficient(counter emf), the relay picks and opens the contacts.

You are correct in that the start capacitor is in series with the start winding. I pulled the motor end cap off so that I could see the circuit board and then I recreated a drawing.

With regard to the start relay, however, the start switch (centrifugal switch) is purely mechanical. Switch contacts are normally closed but when the rotational speed reaches some value, the centrifugal mechanism moves the switch so that the contacts come open.

Now these comments may be true for only a select group of motors but the three CS motors with which I have some familiarity are that way.

I have not had my two Mark V motors open and it will stay that way until one of them breaks.

dusty wrote:You are correct in that the start capacitor is in series with the start winding. I pulled the motor end cap off so that I could see the circuit board and then I recreated a drawing.

With regard to the start relay, however, the start switch (centrifugal switch) is purely mechanical. Switch contacts are normally closed but when the rotational speed reaches some value, the centrifugal mechanism moves the switch so that the contacts come open.

Now these comments may be true for only a select group of motors but the three CS motors with which I have some familiarity are that way.

I have not had my two Mark V motors open and it will stay that way until one of them breaks.

A lot of common hardware between them.

Realize a start switch and a start relay are different. Also do not confuse the Crafter's station 'reversing relay' with a 'start relay'.

A start switch is mechanically operated(centrifugal weights etc.). A start relay is electrically operated(motion generated voltage).

billmayo wrote:I do not use any crimp connectors or any kind of tape inside the motor. The heat tends to break down these these items over time. Only solder and shirk tubing inside the motor. I would get a cold solder type connection sometimes when using the crimp on connectors in the motor. I find I have to use a sharp knife and work to clean the varnish off the coil wire for soldering.

Dusty, use JPG reference for the insulating varnish as that is the brand I use. Should be available locally.

I found several local dealers who advertised to have SprayOn but they do not stock it. They will order but only in case lots.

Screw that. There is always Amazon.

I now have a can of spray varnish. Once I find the heat shrinkable tubing, I'll splice that broken start winding connection.

With this spray varnish, what do I want to paint? The entire winding or just the places that are discolored?

How did I get myself into this. I gave that motor up for dead two or three years ago. I drag it out every now and then for educational purposes. I never expected it to run again and it may not. When I assemble it, the armature seems awfully tight. It rotates but with more force than I would have thought. Bad bearings (bushings) maybe.