Shopsmith Forums

dusty wrote:DOS doesn't count in this discussion. It is not Windows.

Well DOS is an operating system.

Does that mean Windows is not?

What then is it?;)



The world did not begin with Windows.

Having retired from IBM I have a lot of techie friends.
Most hate windows 8 and 8.1 but to be fair most hate Windows. They are the types that want to go in and tweak things.
My computer builder hates Windows 8 and 8.1 but again he must go in and tweak things.

To that is why I'm asking normal users. What I find is most that just use their computer for web surfing, mail, news, and forums either love or are neutral on windows 8 and 8.1.

Those that were old Dos users and have moved along, not power users but more than surface users are neutral or hate windows 8 and 8.1

And of course the power users hate Windows 8 and 8.1

I need a full function Word processor and I have two computers.
Of the Word processing programs I know about Word, Wordperfect and Apple pages work for me. The other programs are great word processing programs but fail to do publishing that I need.

Since I have two computers Microsoft has started you must buy a copy for each computer. Since I need the full office I'm looking at $230 per computer.

If I got Wordperfect I can install it on up to 5 computers. And Apple pages comes on their machines.

I have to replace my desktop. It is too old to bandage any longer besides there is no clear area to stick the bandaid.

I must choose between a Windows 8.1 machine with touch screen
A new machine built but with Windows 7 installed that will probably be stuck on Windows 7 for it's life.
Or buy an Apple.

If I buy the Windows 7 the release of Office I have can be installed but I will never be able to upgrade anything or I'm back to where I'm at with now.

If I buy Apple it will do everything but requires me to learn a whole new way of doing it and since Apple only sells premium machines I will have to pay more.

As I type this I wonder if my problem is with Windows 8 or 8.1 or is it more to do with Microsoft's new philosophy on Office and etc.

In any case I really want to thank Ed (Reible) for his input.

I think my choices narrow down to Windows 8.1 machine with touch screen, (you can use it or not) and Wordperfect suite instead of office.

Or Apple all the way.

I will let you know what I do. Waiting to see what deals come up for the holidays.

Thanks to all.

I think that you should convert to Apple. Go Apple all the way. Why put up with something that you apparently do not like.

dusty wrote:I think that you should convert to Apple. Go Apple all the way. Why put up with something that you apparently do not like.

I agree but my wallet doesn't, I'm looking for a way to get my cake and eat it too.

I'm a geek and I hate Windows 8. I haven't taken the time to upgrade to 8.1 yet, but I don't see that changing my mind because 8.1 doesn't change the biggest problems I have with it.

I recognize that it is easy to use and very intuitive once you figure out a few things. My main problem is just that it's so darn ugly. The "Metro" interface, the tiles, the wasted screen space above and below the tiles. It's not quite as ugly as Windows Mobile, but it's pretty close. I just hate looking at it and that's my main problem with it.

Beyond that, there's the problem of having "Desktop" programs and "Metro" apps. There's two different versions of Internet Explorer - the traditional one you can launch from the Desktop, and the Metro version you launch from the Start screen. Why?? You have to go to two different places to do updates - one place for Windows system updates, and another place for App updates. Why?? The constant switching between Desktop and Metro gets annoying. Plus, Metro apps are full screen only. You can't position two Metro apps in two different windows side by side. Why??

I have Windows 8 on my laptop (my work PC still has 7 and my home PC has Ubuntu Linux). I do enjoy some of the multi-touch features of the touchpad and how I can swipe from edges to perform tasks - like change windows. But it often happens when I don't want it to. Let my finger get too close to the left edge and suddenly the program I'm working in is gone and another one that I have open is up instead.

Microsoft is a dinosaur. Microsoft's days as a software company are limited. They are the new IBM, their world changing faster than they can adapt. Apple is the new Microsoft, in touch with what customers want and sometimes even giving it to them, but always keeping an iron-fisted control over the experience. Android is the new Apple, the quirky, open system with a heart that some people hate and some people are passionate about, but it's where most of the innovation is coming from these days.

heathicus wrote:
Microsoft is a dinosaur. Microsoft's days as a software company are limited. They are the new IBM, their world changing faster than they can adapt. Apple is the new Microsoft, in touch with what customers want and sometimes even giving it to them, but always keeping an iron-fisted control over the experience. Android is the new Apple, the quirky, open system with a heart that some people hate and some people are passionate about, but it's where most of the innovation is coming from these days.

Your analysis of Microsoft I think is accurate. They have lost sight of cutting edge and are trying to play catch up and it isn't easy.

I think Apple may be the new Microsoft but I'm not sure Android is the new Apple. Android to me is more like Linux and I'm not totally sold on the idea of apps. I think linear-ily and I don't like unused apps just sucking up any resource even if it is a tiny bit.

Apple has come out with TAGS which allow you to tag files to group them instead of having to create a folder and placing them into it. Tag everything you get concerning SS as SS and when you want to find something just search on SS and be it a picture, a doc, an email, forum excerpt, PDF whatever and you see a thumbnail of it which you can wiz through and find what you want.

Also to include something you find on the internet into a document you are working on you just click and grab it drag it to the doc and it is there. You can then move it around with ease. With Windows you have to save it usually a picture, then go to the doc do an insert and click where you want it in doc. Moving it around in text is painful.

I am not a geek but I am not afraid to tear into either my machines or the software resident therein.

I guess what I am is an avid user of what has been made available to me.

I regret that I don't have the 8086 DOS machine that I built - way back then. It was a rockin machine with an amber monitor, 64k of memory and two 8" floppies.

Let me address a few of the comments I've read above.

First lets start with MS and Apple, I think the new answer with be neither.... Once we have the bandwidth the path will be to a cloud service. Your pc/lap top/phone/tablet will need minimal processing power as it will be more like a "terminal". Your data is stored in the cloud, the servers will be able to take your data and with the computer power they have will process/data crunch everything local to them. Your portion of the "computer" is just the I/O, you input what you want and see the data. I'll not dwell on this cause I don't like that path but maybe you will????

OK now lets go to windows8, it was mentioned that you can't have more then one app up at a time. This is not true. You can have two apps up if the app(s) were written to allow it. Not a operating system issue but an app issue.

In windows 8 you can turn on auto update for apps, that and the normal windows updates will happen so everything stays up to date if you want it to. I personally don't use explorer but the new version that comes with 8.1 is said to be a major improvement. I believe it will do split screen but have not tried it.

So far as office for windows, I have used it while at work and the licenses we had allowed be to have a copy at home. It was my go to application for those applications. When I retired I lost the use of office unless I wanted to spend the money on my own version. Too expensive for me so I went with a free version now called openoffice. For being free it does a great job and it does all that I need it to. If you are interested just download and give it a shot.

I've forgotten what else I wanted to comment on but this should be enough for now anyway.

Ed

Why is 'windows' going 'back' to full screen 'windows' that can only be viewed one at a time(full screen).

One of the advantages to windows is to me the ability to view multiple activities(programs) multi-tasking on a single screen with control of which are at the 'forefront'.

Why pray tell does a 'local' stationary computer with large screen have to resemble a 'mobile' one with far smaller resolution?

Why does a desk top(or lap top) computer have to have a touch screen function?

And last why we be reverting to a remote computer location for both storage and processing? We had that decades ago and the 'personal computer' was a positive departure from that restrictive scene. We even had dumb terminals back then that performed input/output functions only.

Back then data security was controllable since there was a wall around the 'computer room' and access was tightly controlled. Cloud security? Who is assuring it? Who is controlling it? What happens when the cloud forms into an anvil head?:D

Fools rush in!

So the new DOS will be Dummies Operating Sightlessly.

There are some good things about windows that I like, but all that extra overhead is not one of them.

Personal computer operating systems have moved away from the personal aspect and tried to emulate its bigger sibling. that has added complexity that is counter productive to an individual user.

As for the 'tile' replacing the start mechanism. I agree with the principle. I have always created links on my desktop to be one click away from 'launching' commonly used thingies including those 'in the start fly out menus'. I put em where I want em and do not allow windows to 'arrange them'. I also like the start button(and task bar) along the right side of the screen.



P.S. There were a couple of earlier versions of 'Windows' prior to 95.

P.S. There were a couple of earlier versions of 'Windows' prior to 95.

Yup, there was.