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Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 4:48 pm
by robinson46176
Ed in Tampa wrote:I totally agree and where were you when I was taking all the gas because I said using a dial indicator to adjust the table is over kill?

Nice guy let me get beat into submission from all the dial indicator guys and never say a word and then when I'm finally plummeted so bad I begin to talk goofy and mention dial indicator or feeler gauge you use me as the bad example. :D

I would hate to go into battle with you I think you shoot your wounded!:D

I probably had a Doctors appointment that day. :D


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Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 10:02 pm
by onevw
OK
I checked the slot to the blade with the a-line-it on found it out about .002

I then checked the same slot and blade with the Woodpecker unit and found it out about .008

Wow

Rick

Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 10:14 pm
by JPG
onevw wrote:OK
I checked the slot to the blade with the a-line-it on found it out about .002

I then checked the same slot and blade with the Woodpecker unit and found it out about .008

Wow

Rick
Yer surprised?

Now you know the reason for my earlier comment! #3

Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 10:30 pm
by onevw
JPG40504 wrote:Yer surprised?

Now you know the reason for my earlier comment! #3
No not surprised but this is an exercise in complete useless test and results that have no repeatability. These machines were not made to work in these tolerances.

I do have CNC mill that can work in .0001 in 5 axis tolerance if you can keep the temperature of the room is stable. And you adjust and calibrate it every morning a 1 hr process. Weights 10 tone are so. O and if the temp is not 70 I mean 70 not 70.5 the thing will lock up and send error code all over the place.

So the little shopsmith is pretty good for what it is and what it is made to do.

Rick

Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 10:59 pm
by JPG
It would appear yer head is screwed on correctly!:cool:JMHO;)

Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 11:05 pm
by BuckeyeDennis
Oh, Lord help me, I've just gotta bite on this topic.

Here's my philosophy: The best tool for a job is the one that gives acceptable results with the least time and effort, while providing a pleasant user experience. Aka "The right tool for the right job."

Here's my theory: Analog instruments tend to reduce the time required to get get a process under control, because they give you immediate proportional feedback as to how much correction is required. Unlike a digital go/no-go gauge. The point is not greater precision, it is better feedback. Dial indicators are nice analog feedback devices.

This weekend, I finally got around to a doing a full alignment and sharpening of my Pro Planer. I started by re-watching the Nick Engler video on setting the knives using a dial indicator. Then when doing the initial indicator setup myself, it struck me that the method would give you a really nice cone-shaped cutter if the cutterhead were not parallel to the table in the first place. I do believe that Nick aluded to this in the video, but it didn't quite sink in until I did the setup myself.

So I checked my cutterhead alignment, and found that it was off by 0.005" end to end, and the tiebars were worse. It being seriously frigid outside, this was a good day to stay indoors and make it right. So I futzed around most of Saturday afternoon figuring out the chain & sprocket alignment thing. At the end of the afternoon, the table was aligned to the cutterhead and to all tiebars to within +/- 0.002", all points. If I had to do it again, it would take maybe 30 minutes.

On Sunday, I got back to knife sharpening and alignment (and have several paper-cut-class lacerations to prove it :p). Sharpening was easy, using the SS jig. As for alignment, the first blade took maybe 20 minutes using the Nick method, to within +/- 0.001". Second knife took under 10 minutes for the same results. Third knife took about three minutes.

So developing a good repeatable process can take a significant investment of time. But once you have the process nailed down, a good instrument can enable it to go very quickly and accurately indeed. With little or no trial and error. Proof of the pudding: my test cuts resulted in boards flat to 0.001", right out of the gate.

Now mind you, I find innate satisfaction in perfecting a process. But if you find a different approach to be more gratifying, then I heartily endorse it ... for you. :)

Posted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 12:24 am
by JPG
I see the planer alignment as two separate things.

The 'common' reference is the tie rod that the blade gauge sets upon.

So blade(s) to tiebar(top) and table to tiebar(bottom).

Two separate adjustments that both affect the thickness accuracy.

And they 'interact'!:eek:

Hope the tie bar is 'round'!:D

Posted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 11:59 am
by robinson46176
I would only add this: Keep in mind the medium that you are working with... WOOD... :eek: :D Which can move as far as the machine specks some of you are (over :) ) futzing with while you go eat lunch... :rolleyes:

First you have to decide what exactly your hobby really is :)
Is it wood-working, wood-machining, or is it futzing with set-up specks. :D
I long ago accepted that my hobby is really shop, machines and tools. I do sometimes do a bit of wood-working. I still love the machines but I find myself grabbing a hand-tool more and more for small stuff.
It really doesn't matter which hobby you enjoy as long as you enjoy it and see it for what it really is.
My primary concern and the reason I finally pounced on this thread (sorry Ed :o ) is that I absolutely do not want the newbies that come here to get the idea that they must get ass deep into all of this "measuring mania" in order to use and enjoy wood-working especially as Shopsmiths fit into the hobby. My advice to any newbie is to grab the Shopsmith Allen wrench and follow the alignment procedure originally laid out by Shopsmith back in the 1950's. :p
Then decide which branch of the hobby you enjoy the most. :)
Different strokes for different folks... They can all be fun and that is all that really matters. That and accepting what your actual hobby really is. :)


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Posted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 12:16 pm
by JPG
Amen!

Again, combination square and maybe a wixey thingey. I agree a long straight edge is a useful addition, but, I use the current workpiece to set table heights.;)

I included the thingey because I have found it to be so useful mainly for setups and checking for squareness.(sub fractional angle resolution needs to be ignored)

I admit I left off the SS tool kit! One should always have at least one of those.

Posted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 12:26 pm
by terrydowning
well said farmer.