Shopsmith Forums

I think I agree with every thing you have said, John except for your conclusion.

Yes, the catalog images may not have been updated. But if you browse through your collection of catalogs (I assume you have a collection) you will find those older style 510 rails still pictured long after the 1985-1986 time frame. Okay, I'll yield on this point. The catalog pictures of those rails prove nothing.

You say your 1984 510 rails (which had the threaded studs) were replaced initially by the original 520 rails and later by 520 rails with the magnetic strip. No fuss, no drilling just remove the old and install the new rails (both 510 and 520). No compatibility issue there.

Now for the 1/4-20 threaded through holes on the front and rear edges of the tables; are those not the holes that the rail thumb screws mount in. Sure they are and did the old 510 rails not also use thumb screws (smaller thumb screws) but they were there. From this I conclude that the threaded through holes are all located in the same place and that until the 520 rails came into existence they were universal in all 510 tables.

The bosses that are located on all of the 510 and 520 tables are reference surfaces for the rails (old and new; 510 and 520). Except for some tables that don't have them at all (your report not mine). I have never seen a table without those six bosses. Take a good look at the bottom of those tables. Directly in behind the center bosses you will find castings that I contend would have prevented them from ever being used for anything other than what they are used for now. Nothing. Oh yes, the ones that are not used by the rails. Might they be reference surfaces for the milling machines???

Nobody has mentioned it but some 510 tables have holes on the sides near the front and rear corners. Others have small rectangular platforms rather than the holes. Do we know what those are? I believe I do. I believe those were for grasping the tables (mechanically) during the table milling process. I think, repeat - I think that you will find the side holes only on tables that are ribbed all the way across. On those tables that are smooth in the area between the miter tracks, you will find no holes but rectangular platforms (1996-1997).

Those tables that you have with no tapped holes and smooth tops - those are truly different. No tapped holes means to me no thumb screws. No thumb screws means 520 rails since all 505/510 rails utilized the thumb screws.

This has been fun but I still don't believe we know what differentiated pre-'86 tables from post-'86 tables.

What design change occurred during that time frame that would effect the 520 rails. Remember, John, you have a 1984 table that is compatible to all of the rail versions that we have discussed.

Especially interesting since shopsmith says the 510 was introduced in 1985.

http://www.shopsmith.com/ownersite/toolhistory.htm

It is also interesting that the "C" headstock is listed as starting in 1991 and I have one that is a "B" built 02/13/91.

A lot of other details missing..... or dare we say wrong??

Ed

dusty wrote:I think I agree with every thing you have said, John except for your conclusion.

Yes, the catalog images may not have been updated. But if you browse through your collection of catalogs (I assume you have a collection) you will find those older style 510 rails still pictured long after the 1985-1986 time frame. Okay, I'll yield on this point. The catalog pictures of those rails prove nothing.

You say your 1984 510 rails (which had the threaded studs) were replaced initially by the original 520 rails and later by 520 rails with the magnetic strip. No fuss, no drilling just remove the old and install the new rails (both 510 and 520). No compatibility issue there.

Oh my!!! a terrible typo. I said 1984 and I meant 1994. Very sorry to confuse the issue. Can we go back to 1994 please with the above post from me.

jsburger wrote:Oh my!!! a terrible typo. I said 1984 and I meant 1994. Very sorry to confuse the issue. Can we go back to 1994 please with the above post from me.

Sure, why not.

Hmmm. If 510s were introduced in 1985 then there must not have been much demand for 520 Front Rail 522377. But that still leaves me wondering.

Reference part numbers 522377 and 522298 in the Shopsmith Catalog.

John has reported that his original 520 front rail (522377) was directly compatible to his 510 table as was the 520 front rail (522298).

Interesting that this 510 was originally purchased and shipped in June 1986.

Shipped to Apple Valley Ca of all places.

The purpose of posting them in this thread is to illustrate the early version of the 510(at least a sample of one).

Notable is the location of the center mounting. It is centered between the outer mountings. Notice in one pix that there is no room for a kep nut at the original center mount location.

It seems the dual center bosses were introduced later.

First the 'operator' side.
Drill out for nut would remove part of reinforcing rib.
A bit crowded even without a kep nut.
Smaller jack screw with convenient holes for inserting the SS tool kit to increase torque. Quite handy for creating dimples in the connecting tubes.
Interesting that this one has the dual center bosses and larger jack screws.

I have no explanation for John's extra tapped hole other than the table was reversed. Tapped? Idonno???

Thank you. You have put that question to rest. There was a casting change and that casting change moved the center mounting hole off center to the operators' right. The newly located center hole is actually 9 11/16" off the left side of the table. None of my front rails (505/510 or 520) would mount on the older table. Front rails changed as well as the main table.

Thanks goes to John and JPG for providing the input that helped to recognize the difference between the two vintages. Please ignore the fact that the pre-'86 table is not faithfully depicted here; it was not smooth between the miter tracks as shown here.

If only the front rail that I have that does not support the magnetic tape had been drilled for a pre-86 table .

JPG wrote:Interesting that this 510 was originally purchased and shipped in June 1986.

Shipped to Apple Valley Ca of all places.

The purpose of posting them in this thread is to illustrate the early version of the 510(at least a sample of one).

Notable is the location of the center mounting. It is centered between the outer mountings. Notice in one pix that there is no room for a kep nut at the original center mount location.

It seems the dual center bosses were introduced later.

First the 'operator' side.

EARLY 510 TOP.jpg

EARLY 510 BOTTOM.jpg

EARLY 510 BOTTOM INSIDE.jpg

Drill out for nut would remove part of reinforcing rib.

EARLY 510 BOTTOM CONFLICT.jpg

A bit crowded even without a kep nut.

EARLY 510 REAR RAIL.jpg

Smaller jack screw with convenient holes for inserting the SS tool kit to increase torque. Quite handy for creating dimples in the connecting tubes.

EARLY 510 JACK SCREW.jpg

Interesting that this one has the dual center bosses and larger jack screws.

early 510 table rails.jpg

I have no explanation for John's extra tapped hole other than the table was reversed. Tapped? Idonno???

I guess I was not clear. There are 4 tapped holes. Two in front and two in back. From your pictures they are the threaded holes for the jack screws. I forgot about that. It has been a long time since I have seen/used a 510.

jsburger wrote:

JPG wrote: I guess I was not clear. There are 4 tapped holes. Two in front and two in back. From your pictures they are the threaded holes for the jack screws. I forgot about that. It has been a long time since I have seen/used a 510.

Can we conclude from your comment that the late model 520s do not have threaded through holes for jack screws?

dusty wrote:

jsburger wrote:

JPG wrote: I guess I was not clear. There are 4 tapped holes. Two in front and two in back. From your pictures they are the threaded holes for the jack screws. I forgot about that. It has been a long time since I have seen/used a 510.

Can we conclude from your comment that the late model 520s do not have threaded through holes for jack screws?

I am not so sure of that since SS still sells new 510's. Do the 510 and 520 table tops have the same part number? My two newer smooth center 520 tables have the jack screw holes and only the right hand center boss. Their lineage is unknown so I have no idea if they started out as 510 tables.

Here is how I see the differences...

This may be a bit hard to follow but please bare with me. Looking at JPG's early 510 table with the holes in the rails the center hole lines up with the left hand boss on tables that have two boss'. The older tables had very deep ribs on the underside and the left hand boss is in line with one of those ribs. (see JPG's pictures). Since at that time the rail fasteners required a threaded hole that was not a problem. The threaded hole did not compromise the reinforcing web under the table.

Enter the 510 rails with the fixed studs that required a through hole and more importantly clearance for washers and a nut. The rib was in the way so they moved the boss and hole to the right. Why do some tables with the new 510 rails have two center boss'? Probably just an over site when they changed the print to add the new boss. They just didn't remove the old boss.

Since the pre '86 tables did not have the moved center hole or boss the 520 upgrade kit had to have the center hole in the old position. I don't think any of us know what the differences are between pre and post 86 kits. It certainly would help if we did. A drill bit to make clearance holes from the tapped holes and instructions to make clearance for the nut for the center hole is my guess.

The first picture shows my bought new 1994 510 table. It looks just like JPG's older 510 table with the old 510 rails except it has two center boss' and the left hand boss (original) is not drilled and tapped. The second picture shows the newer smooth center table with the single right hand boss and much reduced under table webs. My other smooth center table is the same. Both have 510 rail threaded jack screw holes. Those tables are not new so your question remains unanswered.