Shopsmith Inc. quality of sources

[Bruce]

I'm not trying to assail Shopsmith. It's great.

You contradict yourself.

[jg300da]

I don't think he is. He's making a point about several of the pieces incorporated into the Shopsmith, not the unit as a whole.
I am a bit surprised at Nicks' comments though, seemed a bit aggressive. The Shopsmith is a good tool, not a perfect tool. Being able to discuss it's shortcommings and weaknesses should be encouraged. There are plenty of other threads filled with cheerleading and praise.
Hopefully, discussion ultimately helps to make a better product. And EVERY product can be improved.

[dusty]

I agree that open criticism should be supported by adequate analysis of the facts. I am pleased to hear that the quadrant is NOT made of cast aluminum. I must say that it certainly looks more like aluminum than it does bronze. I guess that bronze is better than aluminum for this particular task. Nick certainly made it sound as though he thought so.

Be cool Nick, you are not in an enemy camp here; you are amongst friends. Feed us the facts and we'll fight this sort of battle for you.

Benjamin, your choice of words stunk!! Your opinion is your opinion, obviously not shared by everyone.

The bottom line, however, for me is that my quadrant is the original and it is nearly twenty years old. It does not appear to be excessively worn and I have every reason to believe that it will function the same for years to come. Definitely not what I expect from "junk".

If it fails, I am relieved to know that it can be replaced even though the machine is older than all of my grand children.

[Nick]

I'm perfectly cool, Dusty. Arguing with someone who fires from the hip without checking his facts is a like shooting fish in a barrel -- I've barely broken a sweat. As for aggression, I've done nothing but respond in kind. Please remember that this discussion opened by questioning Shopsmith's abilities to make good tools, calling our tools -- or parts of them -- junk, and using incorrect assumptions to back up the argument. Of course every product can be improved and listening to your customers is one of the best ways to do it. However, the opening paragraphs of this thread are not criticism, they are an accusation. If any of you had attacked my friends in this manner, I would have attacked back in the same way -- I am an equal-opportunity aggressor. If this display of propriety and loyalty offends, I apologize.

With all good wishes,

[Nick]

Just to clear up the confusion on the materials in the parts of the speed changer: The older quadrants and brackets were cast from aluminum "380" according to the engineerng records. In 1993, we upgraded to an aluminum-zinc alloy -- Zamak 3 -- for its increased tensile strength, decreased brittleness, and natural lubricity when used in conjunction with steel. The older worm gears were bronze and in 1993 we changed to steel for increased durabilty and lubricity when used with the aluminum-zinc alloy mentioned above.

With all good wishes,

[woodburner]

Benjamin,

Companies are already bringing production back to the U.S. due to fuel costs. It is hard fact that this is actually happening. Good does come from bad time-to-time.

[dusty]

woodburner;

You state that some production, taken offshore, is now being brought back (due to fuel costs).

Can you give some specifics; the names of one or two manufactures who have decided to come back to the USA?

[Ed in Tampa]

Just to clear up the confusion on the materials in the parts of the speed changer: The older quadrants and brackets were cast from aluminum "380" according to the engineerng records. In 1993, we upgraded to an aluminum-zinc alloy -- Zamak 3 -- for its increased tensile strength, decreased brittleness, and natural lubricity when used in conjunction with steel. The older worm gears were bronze and in 1993 we changed to steel for increased durabilty and lubricity when used with the aluminum-zinc alloy mentioned above.

With all good wishes,

In Benjamin's defense there isn't a real lot of difference between "pot metal" and Zamak 3. Look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pot_metal and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZAMAK and look at the composition. Not a whole lot of difference for a non metalurical person. I think in all fairness to Benjamin his calling them pot metal is not real far out there, certainly not a hip shot, perhaps a mid torso shot or loose shoulder shot

While I agree with Dusty my speed changer has operated flawlessly since the mid 80's and from the looks of it will continue for many years into the future. I must wonder why something that is on the most replaced parts isn't engineered to prevent breakage entirely. "I think" it could easily be replaced with something that would prevent all failure for little or no extra cost.

I don't know what the ring gear on the speed control dial is made from but I know there is a market being made now for a person that replaces them with I think a steel ring. Let us get real here Shopsmith is competing in a field where the common top of the line table saws are selling for $1000-$2000 less than and are made entirely of iron or steel.

I think the fact the quadrant is classified a most often replaced part lends some degree of credability to Benjamin's statements.

[benjamin]

Ok. I'm not trying to start an argument here. Really! Nick: the speed changer assembly includes a worm and a worm gear. The worm on my Shopsmith is bronze. There's nothing wrong with it. The quadrant has a worm gear cast on one side of it. It is correct to call it a worm gear -- the gear meshes with the bronze worm. You were the one who told me earlier that the quadrant is cast aluminum alloy. This is a poor material and manufacturing process for a gear. Now you are admitting the quadrant is in fact ZAMAK, which is most defintely "pot metal" even though you denied that before.

Like I wrote earlier, I am not trying to degrade Shopsmith as a whole. I'm pointing out the fact that the quadrant is a piece of junk part. My evidence for this is:

* it has a worm gear cast out of aluminum alloy, ZAMAK, or "pot metal" instead of a suitable gear material
* it is easily stripped by the much harder bronze or steel worm which results in a gear set of materials incompatible for durability in use
* it makes the 17 most frequently ordered parts list

[benjamin]

I realize I might be a bit harsh in my criticism in this thread. I have not been trying to fairly evaluate the Shopsmith -- that wasn't the point of my thread. My point to begin with was to question the "Shopsmith myth" which I may have been the only one to believe in. I described the myth this way:

"a machine made with integrity in a shelter from the machinations of globalized financial capital, cost-cutting CEOs and unaccountable financiers."

In order to test the reality of that myth, I didn't use a fair evaluation. I attacked it.

You could say that all I've proven is that Shopsmith does consider the cost of it's goods sold and will use a cheaper alternative to save costs.

I showed that Shopsmith uses imported bearings (where Magna used domestic bearings), ZAMAK castings, and zinc-plated bolt hardware (which I am convinced comes from China) for the purposes of cost-cutting. In my original post I also mentioned that with the Mark V, the 5-in-1 changed from cast-iron to aluminum and I questioned the ultimate reason behind that change -- it is better, or just cheaper?

Someone could argue, and I think they have, that these things do not affect the overall quality of the product. There's plenty of evidence that Shopsmith quality on the whole is far from shoddy, but my thread title relates to the "quality of sources" and not of the finished product.

I'm not willing to bash Shopsmith. I like mine. I'm investing a lot into it despite there being very considerable alternatives in imported stand-alone tools.

Recently, my uncle came by the house from out of state and I was showing him around. He saw the Shopsmith carcass in the garage and got immediately excited. He started telling me all about the pitfalls of different assemblies, explaining that he used to rebuild them for Shopsmith. He also taught a series of classes on the machines. That was more than 15 years ago, but his enthusiasm for it hasn't changed. I can't imagine someone gushing over a rusty, old, broken Delta or Craftsman.