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Re: Total Unacceptable Prices

Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 11:01 am
by dusty
mountainbreeze wrote:Just curious...

Is Shopsmith selling Fastenol quality nuts and bolts or Home Depot quality? How does one know?
Is there a quality difference between Fastenol and Home Depot or ACE or Hillman or Lowes? Does anyone of us really know?

If you go to a box store, is the quality level the same from one part to the next?

Re: Total Unacceptable Prices

Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 11:15 am
by dusty
Ed has stated that he will accept parts from ACE Hardware - Hillman Parts.

Because I am curious, I went looking. This was interesting: Hillman, ACE, Lowes, Home Depot, eBay, Amazon.

https://www.google.com/search?q=hillman ... fox-b-1-ab

Re: Total Unacceptable Prices

Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 2:05 pm
by jsburger
mountainbreeze wrote:Just curious...

Is Shopsmith selling Fastenol quality nuts and bolts or Home Depot quality? How does one know?
Bolts and other fasteners are marked. Bolts are marked on the head. That mark tells you what the quality is.

https://www.google.com/search?q=bolt+he ... 80&bih=618

Re: Total Unacceptable Prices

Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 7:49 pm
by bill50cal
dusty
the fastenal bolts was a grade 3 standard while the local supplier was a black oxide grade 5. it is well known that fastenal is one of the higher places on hardware. it pays to shop around but also make sure of the qualty or on bolts the grade.

Re: Total Unacceptable Prices

Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 10:14 pm
by reible
I'm not interested in getting in to a lot of details but as one might expect there are governing bodies for things like nuts and bolts. The standards such as ASTM have apply a standard for manufactures to meet. These standards allow manufactures and end designers to decide what fits their needs and insure that one has the right parts for the job.

Who ever makes the parts and meets the standards allow parts from various manufactures to be interchangeable. So ones that might be failing would then be due to the designers not specifying the correct part or the someone failing to order the correct parts.

Yes you can get parts that look alike but are of different quality but if they meet the standard rest assured those parts can all be used interchangeably. If you have parts that are not meeting specification is where the problems come in. You buy some cheap fasteners(not meeting specification) to save some money and people get hurt then that is where the litigation happens.

Ed

Re: Total Unacceptable Prices

Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 10:22 pm
by reible
Now a report on my Ace Hardware trip.

The nuts(with attached lock washer) ran me $.35 each, the screws were $.85(the ones I got are black oxide which were more expensive then the stainless steel but I think I will like the look better) and the springs were also $.85 and not the black color but the size and "spring" are quite close.

I was unable to find the correct spacer.

They had knobs that could work but I was hoping to find a particular type so opted to not buy them.

I think I will order the spacers and shop else where to see if I can find the knobs I want rather then just settle for something that will not be to my liking.

If I had ordered the parts I could have saved money over what I got but not that much more. The big savings came from not getting them from shopsmith.

Ed

Re: Total Unacceptable Prices

Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 4:10 am
by dusty
The fact remains, if you intentionally buy cheap (the low bidder so to speak) you do not get quality.

Flip side: Just because you pay big bucks does not mean you get quality,

I'm out of here.

Re: Total Unacceptable Prices

Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 8:22 am
by robinson46176
Little long here...
My county is a community of around 40,000 people and one of what is called "The Circle Seven" counties that surround Indianapolis. All seven of us share a border with Marion County and all of Marion County is basically Indianapolis. My county lies south east on I-74 toward Cincinnati. It's about 18 to 20 Miles to Indy and about 80 miles to Cincinnati. While I get to the Cincinnati area several times a year I "never" shop there.
My county is the last county of the circle 7 (thankfully) to undergo intense growth. There are things we lack and do need (like any big box stores) but we don't need all of the traffic etc.
The city in the form of new houses is now about a quarter mile as the crow flies from the north-west corner of our farm. We are 3 miles to the old downtown and 2 miles to Walmart and calorie canyon. That also puts us 2 miles to a good Ace Hardware and a good sized Rural King farm store. Our Rural King store suffered horribly from a terrible manager who is gone now and it is coming back nicely. There is one 20 miles north east of us that is amazing.
We are about 20 miles in 3 directions to big box stores Lowes, Home Depot and Menards. We don't have one here but there are TSC Stores (Tractor Supply Co. farm stores) about 20 miles in all directions.
Farming has changed massively over the last 50 - 60 years. As I was growing up in the 1950's most of the farmers around us had a corner of a shed, barn or garage where they had a bucket or old wood box of a mix of odd bolts, nuts and washers (mostly used) and another of mixed nails, all sizes together. In an old tool box or burlap bag they might have had an adjustable wrench, a pipe wrench, a pair of pliers, a couple of screwdrivers and a claw hammer. Hanging on a nail would have been an old handsaw, either a crosscut or a rip saw but being used for both uses. :rolleyes: Most were not mechanics by any stretch. I've always considered myself lucky that since my father had worked at auto mechanics and construction some during the 1930's and at testing aircraft engines all during WW-II he was very tool and shop oriented. He was a good teacher, taking time to not just explain how to do things but also why you do them like that.
We didn't have a large shop but it was fairly well organized and had decent basic tools and equipment. We had both electric and gas welding equipment. Only a couple of neighbors did any welding at all, they had learned in the military.
In contrast today most farmers are fairly sophisticated mechanics and have some of the best equipped shops around with large inventories of fasteners and other supplies on hand.
Around here the farm stores sell maybe several times the volume of fasteners that the big box stores do. Most carry nuts and bolts etc. in grades 2, 5 and 8. They also keep some stuff in stainless steel. Don't quote me on prices but most more common stuff is sold by the pound and I seem to recall it being something like $1.79 a pound for Grade 2, $2.99 a pound for grade 5 and maybe $3.99 a pound for grade 8. I haven't been buying much lately but I need to restock a few sizes.



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Re: Total Unacceptable Prices

Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 9:32 am
by moggymatt
I agree, the pricing lately seems to be "Dont bother me pricing". Last years close out pricings were great deals and I took advantage of them a couple of times but the e-mail specials just this last week had me thinking shopsmith has gone boo-tique.