Shopsmith Forums

dusty wrote: ↑Fri Nov 27, 2020 3:24 am

bainin wrote: ↑Thu Nov 26, 2020 1:20 pm I'm an EE by training. The definition of a "byte" originates in the 2 state digital systems we have, either on or off of a memory position- like a light switch-theres no in-between. Until we have 3-state or N-state digital systems, there is only 1 correct definition of a kilobyte..and thats 1024 bytes.

b

Agreed! If you are working with binary there is no other correct way to describe a kbyte and a nibble is 512 bits.

Disagree!

A BYTE is 8 BITS.
A NIBBLE is 4 bits(smaller[half] byte).


Agree a KILOBYTE is 2x2x2x2x2x2x2x2x2x2 bytes. But we must now refer to it as a Kibibyte to distinguish it from 10x10x10 bytes.

I say must with much lack of enthusiasm.

Agree kbyte is NOT objectionable nor ambiguous. It is preferable IMO. But not french enough!








Now WHY is a BYTE 8 bits?

JPG wrote: ↑Fri Nov 27, 2020 9:47 am Now WHY is a BYTE 8 bits?

Because there are 8 bits in a dollar. There's probably a longer explanation similar to why fire engines are red.

JPG wrote: ↑Fri Nov 27, 2020 9:47 am

dusty wrote: ↑Fri Nov 27, 2020 3:24 am

bainin wrote: ↑Thu Nov 26, 2020 1:20 pm I'm an EE by training. The definition of a "byte" originates in the 2 state digital systems we have, either on or off of a memory position- like a light switch-theres no in-between. Until we have 3-state or N-state digital systems, there is only 1 correct definition of a kilobyte..and thats 1024 bytes.

b

Agreed! If you are working with binary there is no other correct way to describe a kbyte and a nibble is 512 bits.

Disagree!

A BYTE is 8 BITS.
A NIBBLE is 4 bits(smaller[half] byte).


Agree a KILOBYTE is 2x2x2x2x2x2x2x2x2x2 bytes. But we must now refer to it as a Kibibyte to distinguish it from 10x10x10 bytes.

I say must with much lack of enthusiasm.

Agree kbyte is NOT objectionable nor ambiguous. It is preferable IMO. But not french enough!








Now WHY is a BYTE 8 bits?

The snallest number of bits required to form an ASCII character.

But ASCII was 7 bits.

What we now consider ASCII is an extended version.(8 bits).

Closely related to the reasonable answer since 52+ unique bit combinations are needed to define the 26 character alphabet(UC/lc). But we also need other bit combinations for punctuation etc. Then there are control codes(like new line, backspace, tab...teletype stuff....) so that 52 grows to 128.

That requires 7 bits which original ASCII used.

However our computers are power of 2 based.

Soooooo add a bit and a byte becomes 8 bits which IS a power of 2. Thus no bits become wasted in storage.

We cannot ignore the detail that other coding schemes exist(ed)(EBCDIC) and they also are defined as 8 bits.(originally at least - currently larger two byte definitions exist).

Finally there is "hexadecimal" notation which is also predicated upon an eight bit byte and 4 bit nibbles(each hex 'character (0123...DEF).

As usual there is not a "SIMPLE" answer.



Besides a byte is an octet!

Ed,
You said

Because there are 8 bits in a dollar. There's probably a longer explanation similar to why fire engines are red.

Not all Fire Engines are red. I have worked (as a firefighter) on white and yellow ones also. They were thought to be more visible especially in low light. There are more colors that have been used. I have even seen blue and green ones. Red is a traditional color for Fire Apparatus. When you see a big red vehicle what do you think of?

So why do firefighters wear red suspenders? Tradition?
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It's to keep their pants on.

chapmanruss wrote: ↑Fri Nov 27, 2020 2:23 pm Not all Fire Engines are red.

Do you know the explanation that starts with "There are 12 inches in a ruler" ?

oh yeah- you guys are right, byte/bit... the 2 state argument still holds regardless.

b

When posting a pic with the new 3 MiB limit, I noticed that the next screen after check gives the file size in 'old' MBs, in my case 2.1MB. Also that the forum SW now resizes (compresses?) the posted pic, this one went from 2.1MB to 269.1KiB. I don't recall the system doing that before. Unclear to me if the 3 MiB limit applies before or after resizing/compressing, I'll try that next time.

- David

I just tried a 5MB picture and got a file to large error. So I guess the compression only works with a file below the stated limit.

I do think KB needs no change. The B is the giveaway, it tells us we're counting bytes, and bytes get counted in powers of two. This doesn't confuse anyone who knows what a byte is. Adding a new unit does cause confusion. From now on we have to be aware that when we see 2GB that may mean 2,147,483,648 as it always did before, or 20,000,000,000. Or more likely, seeing 2.14GB when it's really 2GB, but probably only in disk drive advertisements that you really shouldn't trust anyway.