How many Shopsmiths are there out there?

JPG · Post by **JPG** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 1:35 pm

beeg wrote:My WAG is 600000+ MKV's are out there.

Convince the 3rd parties out there!!!!:D

Ed in Tampa · Post by **Ed in Tampa** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 5:01 pm

I think using the number of forum member as representative of total SS owners is way off. I know at least 12 shopsmith owners that would be rather be found dead than found on a forum of any kind. I further know many Shopsmith owners that don't own a computer nor have an email address.

I was hoping someone would be able to make a guess based on serial numbers which wouldn't prove there are X number of existing SS it would prove that SS manufactured x number. I would guess a very high percentage still exist. They may exist as nothing more than a paper weight holding a stack of paper against the wall. But the potential for their use is still there.

As far as the Shopsmith trademark discussion, I beleive there is lot of bad information and a huge amount of rumor. I know of a few manufactures that use the term Shopsmith in their ad and have experienced no problem. I think the problem comes when you try to use the Shopsmith trademarked Label/emblem, then you walking on infringement laws.

I think the real reason we don't see more other party equipment manufactures making Shopsmith gear is they know Shopsmith already offers a similar product and that they Shopsmith have/had (at least one time) a huge specifically targeted customer address list to sell to. Give any manufacture of an product that could be fitted to a SS the customer list SS should have and I will bet you would see them making the product.

Notice I say Shopsmith should have. I suspect Shopsmith in it's wisdom either lost, destroyed or neglected to keep their captured Shopsmith customer lists. I know I was once on the their list and fell off over the years only to be reestablished almost 15 years later. I question the decision to drop me in the first place. Think about it those 15 years represent a lot of lost marketing opportunities.

dusty · Post by **dusty** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 5:35 pm

I took another crack at the spread sheet using the numbers in the Shopsmith serial number charts.

A couple assumptions have to be made.

1. The serial number in any box is the starting serial number in that production run. This would then have it that the very first Mark 5 was S/N 263051. Doesn't seem logical but that seems to be what the chart says.

2. Whenever there is an unreasonably large break in serial numbers, I assume they retooled and started over with a new serial number. Example: Feb56 vs Jul57.

3. If serial numbers in a later production period are smaller than an earlier production period, I assume they retooled and started over. Example: Dec61 vs Jan78 and also Nov87 vs Apr86.

This assumption results in four production periods (months) where I have doubt in my numbers because I don't know what the ending numbers in those four periods were.

I have inserted hypothetical numbers for these four periods that total 2000 production units. That is how fuzzy my new estimate is.

My number is now 291461 Mark Vs produced from Jan54 through Nov87.

Every thing from that date on is date coded so we have no clue.

Gotta go to a wedding party, I'll do this later. My first attempt did not work.

reible · Post by **reible** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 6:49 pm

Hi,

I think we are looking at two different things here. One how many shopsmiths were ever built and second would be what one would used as a business plan for some widget that you hope to sell for the shopsmith.

For the total number built if we look back at the shopsmith story:
"It has been a very challenging twenty-plus years for Shopsmith. But it is very gratifying to know that the Shopsmith family has grown to over one-half million since 1946- the year the first five-in-one multi-purpose tool was invented- to today!"

So if the twenty plus years starts in say 1972 and add 21 years that would make the statement from around 1993??? So how many more between then and now??? Production was from 1947 to 1967 (20 years) then started again in 1972.... thus a span of around 41 years? 500,000 / 41 = 12,195/year. If we then say 18 years more at that rate gives us 219,510 for a total of say 719,510 machines. So that is my total made guess.

However when you talk about a market base then things are going to change to who is the group that buys the product. You would have no starting "list" to send information to, so you might then put your produce here on the web so people can find it. All the owners who don't do the web are not going to find you or order your product. Those that store there old news papers and paint cans on the old rusted machine in the corner of the garage/basement are not going to be buying your product. All the machines that are torn apart and have been that way for the last 30 years are not going to be you customers.

So who are your customers? I think most of them will be the ones that are active on the web and a member of one of the groups. And of course some friends of that group who will hear by word of mouth.

Think of it like this. Henry Ford made over 18,000,000 model T's but if you came out with some thing for a model T you are not going to expect to sell very many of them. Same thing for shopsmith's, there might be a million made but the market for something new for them just isn't there for large sales.

Now for a little turn of direction. Since some companies do have a shopsmith version or one of there normal items or perhaps a special item for shopsmith only. How many of each can you name? To get you started:
sandflee special version
ringmaster special version
incra special version
jointech special version

OK your turn. (this is not counting general things like say a lathe tool or 5/8" saw blade). You can use ebay items if you like something like say the Appalachia Tool Works sled.

Ed

fixit · Post by **fixit** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 9:38 pm

One more is the MiterSet. I'll have to think more to come up with another.

ldh · Post by **ldh** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 10:17 pm

Add to that list

oneway chucks for Shopsmith
Penn State Industries has several small chucks & pen arbors for Shopsmith.

ldh

paulmcohen · Post by **paulmcohen** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 1:12 am

There are Modular Tool Rests made by multiple vendors that designed to fit the Shopsmith. Woodcraft sells them under a generic name "3/4" post... which uniquely defines a Shopsmith tool rest banjo.

Buffing Wheels and adapters, again described as 5/8" hole with setscrew.

Forrest or others makes have saw blades with 1 1/4" holes on request, not listed as Shopsmith.

Carter has many accessories for the Shopsmith Bandsaw including blades.

The problem with all of this is finding it, they don't advertise it as Shopsmith compatible with few exceptions.

iclark · Post by **iclark** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 1:44 am

add
Nova chucks to the list as they make a 5/8" straight arbor for their chucks

does anyone know of a Strebcenter for SS?
I used one with a Morse taper on a mini-lathe at Woodcraft and it made a believer of me.

reible · Post by **reible** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 1:50 am

Hi,

Yes they sort of do... anyway more information and pictures at:
https://forum.shopsmith.com/viewtopic.php?t=2499

Ed

iclark wrote:add
Nova chucks to the list as they make a 5/8" straight arbor for their chucks

does anyone know of a Strebcenter for SS?
I used one with a Morse taper on a mini-lathe at Woodcraft and it made a believer of me.

iclark · Post by **iclark** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 3:58 am

reible wrote:Hi,

Yes they sort of do... anyway more information and pictures at:
https://forum.shopsmith.com/viewtopic.php?t=2499

Ed

Ed,

thanks. I posted a question over in that thread to minimize drift here.

Ivan

Shopsmith Forums

How many Shopsmiths are there out there?

How many Mark Vs were manufactured Jan54-Nov87