Shopsmith Forums

a1gutterman wrote:There are two ends of a pendulum swinging to this conversation: Selling on this site or knot selling on this site.

There are various equations that create a lot of "gray" area concerning these two extremes that have most of us somewhere in the middle. Each of us probably has an opinion and a "location" in that swing of the pendulum that we feel should be acceptable. NONE of us should act on those opinions. We should all respect the wishes of the forum sponser. As Shopsmith Inc., is the sponser, and they have repeatedly informed us that this is knot a site to discuss the selling of any item knot being sold by ShopSmith, I think they have been very lenient to many members. It is their choice where to set the limits and knot ours. Leniency is O.K. Failure to comply with a direct request to cease wood knot be. Just my 2 cents worth.

When I read the Terms and Conditions for the forum, I do NOT sense that the pendulum swings all the far.

Shopsmith Terms & Conditions

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Usage Restrictions
You may access and view the Content (as defined below) appearing on this Web site for personal, non-commercial use only. You may download and/or copy certain portions of the Content for personal, non-commercial use only, provided that you (a) retain all copyright, trademark or other proprietary notices contained on the Content, (b) do not modify or alter the Content in any way and (c) do not make the Content available to any third party. Shopsmith, Inc. reserves complete title and full intellectual property rights in any Content that you download from this Web site.

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Furthermore, it is my interpretation that Shopsmith has not made any distinction between items being sold by Shopsmith and all other items.

I guess there might be some debate as to what "commercial use" means but I believe commercial use includes all buying and selling.

dusty wrote:When I read the Terms and Conditions for the forum, I do NOT sense that the pendulum swings all the far.

Shopsmith Terms & Conditions

.....

Usage Restrictions
You may access and view the Content (as defined below) appearing on this Web site for personal, non-commercial use only. You may download and/or copy certain portions of the Content for personal, non-commercial use only, provided that you (a) retain all copyright, trademark or other proprietary notices contained on the Content, (b) do not modify or alter the Content in any way and (c) do not make the Content available to any third party. Shopsmith, Inc. reserves complete title and full intellectual property rights in any Content that you download from this Web site.

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Furthermore, it is my interpretation that Shopsmith has not made any distinction between items being sold by Shopsmith and all other items.

I guess there might be some debate as to what "commercial use" means but I believe commercial use includes all buying and selling.

Hi Dusty,

My reference to the swing of a pendulum was in regards to the conversation we are having; the SS site terms being one end of the swing and the desire to discus selling an item here, the other end of the swing. Sorry I did knot make that clearer. As for discussing the selling of items by Shopsmith Inc. on this site, regardless of the terms, I can knot imagine that they have a problem with us discussing that. As an example, when a member says something like, " Where can I get 12" disk sanding paper?", I do knot think that SS has a problem with my stating "I get mine from SS." and posting the link to the part. But that is my interpretation; you are welcome to yours.

Dusty,
The statement you quoted "You may access and view the Content (as defined below) appearing on this Web site for personal, non-commercial use only." clearly refers to forum "access and view". In my opinion, Shopsmith is stating that any CONTENT posted on the forum site may not be used for commercial purposes, a very reasonable requirement. This is to deter a competitor from extracting and publishing comments, in or out of context, for potential advantage. I don't read it as prohibiting the identification of items for sale that are not available from Shopsmith. There are innumerable instances of such references in the forum, none of which have received a rebuke from Shopsmith.
Dick

mickyd wrote:I'm with JPG on this issue. Craigslist is a national listing of items being sold by individuals. On any day, there are a hundreds of "good deals" for ShopSmiths. For example, today, here in San Diego, there are 4 postings for cheap ShopSmiths, ranging from "free" to $100. Do I post a thread or for that matter 4 threads for these deals where tomorrow, they will be gone? And tomorrow, when 3 more show up, do I post threads for those? OF COURSE NOT. The thread will still be on this forum LONG after the "deals" are gone.

When we post "deals" that many of us can benefit from, it's worth it. When we post "deals" that only one of us can benefit from, as with a Craigslist posting, it just inconveniences forum members and guests.

I'm quoting a message written by myself because I want to deal specifically with how this thread started, that being a post referencing a Craigslist advertisement. Many of you responding to this thread are dealing with the issue from the standpoint of the ShopSmith finding a home vs. the posting of an advertisement in this forum. I guarantee you that if the ShopSmith on Craigslist is a "good deal", it will find itself a home without the need of the posting being put in this forum. Does anyone disagree with this statement? If so, you need to see for yourself. Try responding to a Craigslist ad for a ShopSmith after it has been posted for a while. IT WILL BE GONE. I know. I have tried it many times.

a1gutterman wrote:There are two ends of a pendulum swinging to this conversation: Selling on this site or knot selling on this site.

......... It is their [ShopSmith's] choice where to set the limits and knot ours. Leniency is O.K. Failure to comply with a direct request to cease wood knot be. Just my 2 cents worth.

I agree that it is ultimately ShopSmith's choice where to set the limits. I think that member are the first line of defense however. I guess the post could have been flagged to admin to let them decide but then we wouldn't have been able to have all this fun sharing our opinions. After all, what's a man without an opinion?

Gotta go polish my saw and extension table. See you later.

I won't get into whether the advertised item should have been mentioned here or not, others can slug that out.
I will only mention that I have a small (totally non-commercial) list on Yahoo called SS_Owners where such postings are quite welcome. Members can buy and sell among themselves and pointing members toward SS items available at other locations is encouraged. Members are also permitted to express negative opinions about both the company or the machine without fear of reprisal (not that it happens much).
Many of the early members were a fair number that were made to feel unwelcome on the SSusers list for wanting to talk about the repair and restoration of the machines so I started that list so we could discuss such things with out getting unfriendly off list messages about "our old junk" from at least one moderator. We are not a big list but we have always been friendly. My list home page is at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SS_owners/
My list is for all models and all accessories whether made by Shopsmith or not.
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Skip Campbell operates (very nicely) a SS10-ER list on Yahoo that is huge but also very friendly and super informative. It is probably the best 10-ER resource around.
Shopsmith does an excellent job with this forum but at the end of the day it "IS" Shopsmith's forum and that does generate a certain amount of pussyfooting around at times...

I didn't know about your Yahoo group until now, Farmer, or I would have joined. But I've joined now and look forward to upping my daily dose of Shopsmith discussion!

Ok guys
I was going to post under community but ran across this thread. In reading it I'm confused, I thought This would be a good contact place but.... I didn't want to list in craigslist. My wife and I are cleaning out my inlaws house of 50+ years, they have both passed away over the last 3 years, and he has a 1955 SS I need to move But I guess this isn't it.
Enlighten me please...

Thanks
Tom

First, I am sorry about your recent loses.

No this is probably not the best place to list your Shopsmith. Some say that management frowns on doing so. I am not sure of that. However, the other site (http://www.ssug.org) has a section just for the buying and selling of equipment.
Membership is free there. Just log on and register.

md-rebel wrote:Ok guys
I was going to post under community but ran across this thread. In reading it I'm confused, I thought This would be a good contact place but.... I didn't want to list in craigslist. My wife and I are cleaning out my inlaws house of 50+ years, they have both passed away over the last 3 years, and he has a 1955 SS I need to move But I guess this isn't it.
Enlighten me please...

Thanks
Tom

Tom, you are correct. This is not the place to post your offer to sell used SS equipment. As previously stated the SSUG or even the dreaded "Craigslist" would probably be your best options. Good luck.

JPG40504 wrote:I AM disappointed in your LACK of principles. Whether it is 'yours' is beside the point!:(

Good Intentions but poor judgement.

Talk about POOR judgement! Consider not hitting the "Submit Reply" button next time, like I should have.