Lower Saw Guard

[dusty]

I have been trying to figure out exactly what Dusty showed in his photographs. I attached a cardboard cutout to the inner guard assembly that filled in the front of the lower sawguard, raising the effective height to the table regardless of where the height of the table was set. This did not really stop the small cuttings from landing on the carriage. It seemed that most of the cuttings were coming out past the top of the tie bar guard, which does not come all the way up to the table to allow for table tilt. Keacaps solution to put tape from the top of the guard to the table seems to have met with good success.

I am thinking about attaching a second hose port to the front of the lower guard assemble, something like the model 500 upgrade sawguard has. Has anyone tried something like this?

Thanks, Mike

My own observations have led me to believe that the saw dust that I am attempting to reduce, does NOT come from the opening that exists between the bottom of the table and the tie bar.

In the first photo, you see sawdust that escaped through that small opening beneath the Guard and Pin Assy and the Guard Cover. The saw dust is accumulated on the right side of the headstock.

The second photo shows saw dust that I think comes through a slot in the Guard Cover. Part of the hole is blocked by a knurled nut but saw dust blows out of that hole and accumulates on the carriage.

The third photo shows the underside of the table and the tie bar cover. Notice that there is very little saw dust here. Down below on the left hand side is that knurled nut that I spoke of. Notice all the saw dust accumulated around the slot that the knurled nut partially covers.

In image #4 you are looking at the outfeed side of the carriage and headstock. If the whole area looked like this I would be busy making saw dust rather than thinking about how to prevent it.

[keakap]

I am thinking about attaching a second hose port to the front of the lower guard assemble... Mike

and I see the Shark Guard has a small hose sticking up outta the top of the upper blade guard/riving knife assy..
Now I'm trying to think of which alternative would work better, before I start boring big holes in stuff.

As for a little bit of sawdust, first of all MDF or composite dust breathing will kill you quicker than an Obama health plan. But my big reason for wanting to vacuum as much dust and grit as possible is simple: 75% humidity.
Yuk.

[keakap]

My own observations have led me to believe that the saw dust that I am attempting to reduce, does NOT come from the opening that exists between the bottom of the table and the tie bar..

And a lot of where it ends up depends on the cut. The tie bar tape helps in Some situations, not all. Cutting a half-kerf's worth off the end of a Doug-fir 2x4 on mine for instance, will manage to circumvent almost any attempt at maintaining clean air around the operator. (altho the Shark Guard thing might do it)

I've made some cuts that, with just the vacuum on the lower guard chute (and the tie bar tape) result in almost zero dust or chips on the machine or floor (or in the air). Yet with others it seems almost futile to turn on the ShopMate.

While I'm going through all my adjustments and test cuts again I'll try to keep track of what seems to work and what don't.

Keep up the analysis and experimenting!

[dusty]

And a lot of where it ends up depends on the cut. The tie bar tape helps in Some situations, not all. Cutting a half-kerf's worth off the end of a Doug-fir 2x4 on mine for instance, will manage to circumvent almost any attempt at maintaining clean air around the operator. (altho the Shark Guard thing might do it)

I've made some cuts that, with just the vacuum on the lower guard chute (and the tie bar tape) result in almost zero dust or chips on the machine or floor (or in the air). Yet with others it seems almost futile to turn on the ShopMate.

While I'm going through all my adjustments and test cuts again I'll try to keep track of what seems to work and what don't.

Keep up the analysis and experimenting!

Your observations are most interesting. The deviations due to type of cut I had not thought about.

For these reasons, I maybe should do a setup and then make saw dust for a few weeks. My findings might then be more meaningful.

[Ed in Tampa]

and I see the Shark Guard has a small hose sticking up outta the top of the upper blade guard/riving knife assy..
Now I'm trying to think of which alternative would work better, before I start boring big holes in stuff.

As for a little bit of sawdust, first of all MDF or composite dust breathing will kill you quicker than an Obama health plan. But my big reason for wanting to vacuum as much dust and grit as possible is simple: 75% humidity.
Yuk.

Actually the vac port on Shark Guard is 2 1/2" a perfect fit for the DC3300 hoses.
For the Shark Guard to work it must be sitting down on the wood or held slightly above it. I don't think you can manage to lock the existing Shopsmith guard in position like you can the Shark Guard and that will effect it's collection efficiency.

[Ed in Tampa]

My own observations have led me to believe that the saw dust that I am attempting to reduce, does NOT come from the opening that exists between the bottom of the table and the tie bar.

In the first photo, you see sawdust that escaped through that small opening beneath the Guard and Pin Assy and the Guard Cover. The saw dust is accumulated on the right side of the headstock.

The second photo shows saw dust that I think comes through a slot in the Guard Cover. Part of the hole is blocked by a knurled nut but saw dust blows out of that hole and accumulates on the carriage.

The third photo shows the underside of the table and the tie bar cover. Notice that there is very little saw dust here. Down below on the left hand side is that knurled nut that I spoke of. Notice all the saw dust accumulated around the slot that the knurled nut partially covers.

In image #4 you are looking at the outfeed side of the carriage and headstock. If the whole area looked like this I would be busy making saw dust rather than thinking about how to prevent it.

Dusty
I think there must be some dust coming from the tie bar area. Like I said I can mimimize it but I can't eliminate it. The dust pattern is pretty much the same only denser depending on how I have the lower guard to tie bar guide adjustment. The dust coming out the slotted holes has to be mimimal I would think.

I really think the biggest problem is there is not enough incoming air to set up a strong wind pattern to the dust collection port. I seem to get more dust on the floor if a use a zero clearance insert than I do if I use the standard SS insert. If I add the Shark Guard to the mix I set up a whole new dust pattern and then the zero clearance insert has less dust.

Dusty keep studying the problem, I'm very interested in where the actual problem is. I suspect it is a combination of many factors. Dust collector velocity, wind flow pattern, cracks and holes that allow dust out or air in, even blade and blade speed.

[rayjack]

I'd like to show you what I have done to try to minimize the amount of sawdust spewn out by my 510. Before we go any further let me say that I still have to sweep up a fair amount of dust, so I'm not claiming this as a solution, but I think it helps a bit.
Initially in order to try to limit the amount of dust thrown behind the SS I fitted a board at the back of the machine. (Photo 1). I cut this from an 8x4 salvaged sheet of melamine covered board and mounted it on hinges attached to a 4"x1/2" bolted between the rear two legs and suspended it at an angle by fastening a length of rope to the bottom SS tube, threading it through a hole in the board, passing it along the back of the board and returning it through and fastening it to the tube at the other end. The board was therefore suspended at an angle behind the machine. As you can see I use this to store my spare blades, inserts etc, and I have also fitted a couple of electrical sockets.
I then fastened a 3-sided box across the top of the board at the rear and sealed the ends, coating all joints with silicone sealer to make them airtight. I bored a 2.5" hole through the angled board into the box and fitted a SS blast gate. This was to form the out-take for the tablesaw dust. At the other end of the board I did the same thing to form the out-take for the upper sawguard extractor.
At one end of the affixed box I fitted another blast gate to take the tube from my dust extractor.
I now had a box channel running along the back of the angled board to act as an extractor pipe, with inlets from the saw table and upper saw guard, and an outlet to the dust collector.
To make the upper sawguard extractor I purchased a 1" "hose tail" from an aquarium supplier and filed down the collar so that it would fit inside the upper saw guard. I drilled a 1" hole through the top of the guard and pulled the tail through - it was a sufficiently tight fit to stay ther without gluing. (Photo 6) A 1" ID flexibe tube was then fitted to this tail and to the shop-made blast gate. My dust collector (a fine dust collector from Axminster Power Tools but probably Jet) connected the the end blast gate completed the set up.
Originally I had a 4" outlet to a SS dust extractor, but found that this would not cope with the fine dust produced by the saw, so I used my 2 1/2" fine dust collector.
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[rayjack]

I couldn't get all the photos in on the previous thread so attach them here

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[dusty]

Dusty
I think there must be some dust coming from the tie bar area. Like I said I can mimimize it but I can't eliminate it. The dust pattern is pretty much the same only denser depending on how I have the lower guard to tie bar guide adjustment. The dust coming out the slotted holes has to be mimimal I would think.

I really think the biggest problem is there is not enough incoming air to set up a strong wind pattern to the dust collection port. I seem to get more dust on the floor if a use a zero clearance insert than I do if I use the standard SS insert. If I add the Shark Guard to the mix I set up a whole new dust pattern and then the zero clearance insert has less dust.

Dusty keep studying the problem, I'm very interested in where the actual problem is. I suspect it is a combination of many factors. Dust collector velocity, wind flow pattern, cracks and holes that allow dust out or air in, even blade and blade speed.

I understand why you believe that there must be dust coming from above the tie bar. By comparison to the other portals that I have been trying to close, that one is huge. But I am here, for the time being, to say that there in minimal dust coming through the gaping hole.

I also understand why you believe that the dust coming through the screw slot has to be minimal. Believe me, it is not. There is as much saw dust forced through that hole as there escaping from anywhere else.

It is simple, Ed. Put a piece of painter's tape over that hole and see for your self. The air turbulence set up by the blade pull saw dust right off the teeth and force it through that hole on the way by. If you carefully pull the lower dust cover off, you will see a heavy concentration of sawdust inside in that area.

I am sure that the effects of these leaks could be overcome with a significant increase in air flow through the lower saw guard. But I have a DC3300 and I have to utilize what I have to the best that I can.

When I set out to do this, it was with the commitment that I was spending no more money on dust collection.

Ed Reible has contributed much more than I have to the resolution of this small problem. He has some great ideas and when he decides to unveil them I am sure you will be most impressed.

[dusty]

rayjack,

I can see that you have put in a lot of thought and effort to this. The area beneath you Mark V looks as though it has worked. Now I have been accused of sweeping and vacuuming right before I take pictures. Is there any chance I have company sweep and vacuum in this.

I have to study your entire post a bit more but please answer one question. Do I see, in the first image, an exposed blade in the lower saw guard area?