Dissapointed ShopSmith owner

still_waters_43 · Post by **still_waters_43** » Thu Apr 01, 2010 10:00 pm

Whether it was new, old, from SS, from Magna etc. all that does not matter in my view.

If there is a functional issue with the product being sold then that needs to be clearly stated in the product description. Afterall, the purpose of a product manual is to communicate information about the product, so if you cant read it then it's defective.

JPG · Post by **JPG** » Fri Apr 02, 2010 12:14 am

still_waters_43 wrote:Whether it was new, old, from SS, from Magna etc. all that does not matter in my view.

If there is a functional issue with the product being sold then that needs to be clearly stated in the product description. Afterall, the purpose of a product manual is to communicate information about the product, so if you cant read it then it's defective.

Get your thinking in a consistent time frame!

Old, new, originally published by who DOES matter!

Your 'desires' have nothing to do with what is reasonable to 'expect'.

A poor manual is not a 'functional' issue. The product(s) work fine without any manual! Proper setup may be problematic though!

I agree with Heath. Especially since the 'archives' already exist on their site!

swampgator · Post by **swampgator** » Fri Apr 02, 2010 12:14 am

Still Water,

Make that +1 about the manual should come with new equipment. And, the manual should be clear and convey information clearly. If the manual is cloudy, maybe the machinery is not good either would be my impression.

From what I remember about copyright, it is for 50 years plus the life of their children. So, I suppose in this case, since Magna sold everything to Shopsmith, if it was ever copyright material, it may still be. If not copyrighted, there should be no problem making a full copy. You can change the wording and pictures to be similar but not exactly the same and you won't be violating the law. Making copies on a copy machine is not a violation if there is no copyright marking. Also, if is does have a copyright posted, if you copy it and give it away, there is no violation of the law is my understanding. I hope I am right on this.

Have a super Easter.

heathicus · Post by **heathicus** » Sat Apr 03, 2010 1:33 am

It's not 10ER documentation, but I did find some Mark 5 documentation that available for free download.

http://www.shopsmith.com/ownersite/productmanuals.htm

It's a nice start, but they could still do a lot better.

dusty · Post by **dusty** » Sat Apr 03, 2010 6:47 am

heathicus wrote:It's not 10ER documentation, but I did find some Mark 5 documentation that available for free download.

http://www.shopsmith.com/ownersite/productmanuals.htm

It's a nice start, but they could still do a lot better.

One of the tasks on Nick's plate when he left Shopsmith was to add to this. Obviously that did not happen.

mckenziedt · Post by **mckenziedt** » Sat Apr 03, 2010 2:36 pm

Almost no SPT's bought used have a manual included, especially if bought off ebay(if there was one it most likely gets sold serarately for more than SS charges). I have bought MV era manuals from SS to replace the over twice as thick bilingual ones that shipped with SSs sold into Canada when SS used to let ther products into Canada. These US English manuals were always professionally produced new manuals. I have also bought a LOT of used MV and 10e/er ones on ebay. I now have hard copies of most manuals and other SS catalog/parts/accessory listings. These have ranged from like new to so coffee stained, torn, mouldy, insect eaten, etc they were replaced with decent ones. My 1st 10er manual, from Florida(no it wasn't from any of the reputable SS venders out of Florida we all trust), was so insect eaten, 10% of some inside pages were missing. Then I saw a listing for "a genuine SS original manual" and the picture showed a very nice looking cover. I usually won't pay over 1/2-2/3 of SS price, but on this one- genuine, pristine- I went 100% by buy it now. It turned out to be a photo copy of a very bad photo copy from an apparent 1970's era technology image.(the cover was decent,but only light paper). I complained to the seller who claimed it was from SS. Upon very close examination of rubber stamping on it saying SS, it did appear that it did originate at the modern SS. This seller flamed me for complaining,but backed down somewhat when it became obvious to him that I was prepared to take this higher, much higher in regards to his claim of genuine origional.

dusty · Post by **dusty** » Sat Apr 03, 2010 2:44 pm

What all of us must acknowledge is that the Shopsmith documents are Copyrighted. I don't know about the Magna or Yuba documents.

Redistribution of copyrighted documents can become a legal problem.

dickg1 · Post by **dickg1** » Sat Apr 03, 2010 4:18 pm

Dusty,
I checked the original (20 page) manual I received with my new Yuba (Magna) Goldie back in 1964. The document has a 1957 copyright.
Dick

wannabewoodworker · Post by **wannabewoodworker** » Sun Apr 04, 2010 1:03 am

I ordered the Mark VII manuals available from SS and was surprised to receive reprints of reprints as well that were very difficult to read. The cost was $25.00 and took 2 weeks. I emailed SS with my dissatisfaction with the manuals they sent me and NEVER got a reply? With that I chalked it up to a bad decision on my part for not calling and asking about what they had for manuals. I still think they should state on the website that the manuals are reprints of reprints and are not of very high quality that way I would not have had the expectations I had. Oh well live and learn.

mickyd · Post by **mickyd** » Sun Apr 04, 2010 11:53 am

I'll be ordering both a Pro Planer and Joiner manual from ShopSmith this week for $9.99 ea. plus shipping. My satisfaction criteria will be......I have to be able to read them. Would I like a new bound manuals, yes. Will I be dissatisfied with a photocopy, no. It's only a manual. Life goes on.

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