Why I didn't buy a new Shopsmith

[paulrussell]

Oh - Com-on!!!!! I just went to the first Shopsmith web site that most people would see. (Shopsmith.com) There is a good sized picture of a man using a Shopsmith. Then there are 5 smaller photos of the various uses of the basic model.

Clicking on the red strip below the small pictures take you immediately to a page showing and discussing that use. Although I didn't look at all uses - I saw a down-loadable DVD showing the disk sander use. Increasing the page size to 150% gives an almost full screen picture of the operation.

Also, a click on the small pictures will give you sound effects.

SoRRy! Don't see the problem with the web site!

You could truthfully say that based upon this web site (shopsmith.com), and this site alone, that you would purchase a new Shopsmith model 505, 510, or 520?

You would not be at all put off by being told you would receive information, and then not receiving the information?

You would not feel that there is a bit of false advertising when you discovered that the "catalog subscription" and education options that were touted as a benefit of ownership did not in fact exist?

Would discovering that the travelling demo prominently advertised (one of the six main menus) was also extinct make you feel this was a company you could depend upon? Especially after the company had asked for your personal information claiming it was so they could notify you of this non-existent demonstration?

I'm sorry. I see a lot of problems.

I also see that it time for me to shut up lest I beat this dead horse into the next county. There are clearly very divergent, strong opinions on the matter.

[charlese]

Well - you obviously went past this page to see the price(s). To tell you the truth, if I had asked for info on the web and didn't get an answer, I would have called them at their 800 number.

Yes! I think the original page is enticing enough to cause me to get some answers to my questions.

Guess I still don't trust computers and the web to give correct and/or prompt answers to everything.

[paulrussell]

Well - you obviously went past this page to see the price(s). To tell you the truth, if I had asked for info on the web and didn't get an answer, I would have called them at their 800 number.

Yes! I think the original page is enticing enough to cause me to get some answers to my questions.

Charlese is not talking to himself. I decided that my last post had gotten a bit confrontational, and was a case of beating my own dead horse. I decided to delete it. Charlese responded to that post while I was deleting it. My apologies to Charlese.

[charlese]

Charlese is not talking to himself. I decided that my last post had gotten a bit confrontational, and was a case of beating my own dead horse. I decided to delete it. Charlese responded to that post while I was deleting it. My apologies to Charlese.

Saw that and also deleted my answer. No apology needed!

[skou]

Guys, back to the original question;

I didn't buy a new SS, because Magna stopped making them, about 5 years before I was born.

I'm currently on my own second and third ER, (well, one of them is an E model) and 2 of my brothers have ERs, as well as a great Army buddy who got 2 ERs, right after he bought his first house. Shannon, my Army buddy, lived with me, when I had ER#1, and he was fascinated by it's simplicity and versatility, as am I.

I've researched the MkV, and am sticking with my (HEAVY) castiron beasts. My current primary machine has a DC motor, and a MkV headrest to hold my MkV bandsaw. My second machine is due to be set up as a dedicated drill-press, with a short table.

Well, not completely a dedicated drill-press, because I have a weird idea. Line up the D-P machine at the right end of the other rig, spaced so that when dropped level the headend will hit the tail end of the left machine. Put the pre-made oak joining plugs in both tubes, put a E model tailstock on upside down, and spaced so that it is about 1 inch on both sets of tubes, and bolt them together with a tailstock attach bolt. 6+ foot lathe!

Yes, it's gonna take some playing with. Since I've got an extra ER tailstock, I'll put it on the head end of D-P machine, just floating. It'll slide to the headstock, and I'll lock it in place aqainst the headstock. I'll probably just get another carriage, and remove the tiebar to install it.

Try that with your MkV.

steve

[boostfan]

I personally think that the website is a little needs some work. For me the navigation is not very intuitive. I hate pictures which really do not show enough detail, it feels like they are still living in a dial-up design.

Was the 'TA' a marketing tool also? You bet. Whenever I had the chance to go, the instructor offered special deals on Shopsmith accessories and tools, and I never saw him sell less than $2,000 worth of accesories at each class. The 'TA' usually offered three different classes in each town they stopped in. Times that with the $2,000 at each class, $6,000. The 'TA' was in about 40 different towns a year, so all-in-all about $240,000 sold each year in accessories. To me, that's a no-brainer for a company. Why they ended it, I don't know. If they ever offer it again, I hope I can be hired as an instructor. Getting to use the woodworking tools I enjoy the most, being able to teach others the great joy and satisfaction you receive from woodworking, getting to travel around the country, and getting paid for it? Sign me up

I agree with the numbers, but I don't agree with the conclusion. Let say if SS retails an item at $100, they probably have $50 in manufacturing costs. If they got $240,000 in "special deals" sales the retail value was actually $300,000, which means $150,000 in material cost. That leaves $90,000. They are paying the 'TA' lets say $40,000 with benefits and burden that becomes $50,000. That leaves $40,000 to pay travel expenses, fees, shipping costs and theoretically have a little profit, which I suspect there wasn't any of of left.

[heathicus]

I completely agree with paulrussell regarding the web site. In addition to the flaws he cited, I'm sure the visual design was cutting edge back in 1995. It comes across to me as if they took several printed brochures and copied and pasted them onto a web server.

While the site has a lot of great info (I've relied on the exploded diagrams frequently), it's just not laid out very well and is hard to find. And have you looked at the "Hands-On" archive? It's a jumbled mess of low-res pictures and cartoon drawings.

One feature of the web site I think would benefit them and help instill confidence in potential buyers is a section showcasing what people have been able to build with their Shopsmith machines. The projects they seem to focus on in the "Hands-On" archive seem to be simple craft type projects. I've kicked around the idea of building my own web site - "Built With A Shopsmith" to counter the notion that the machine is only for the weekend hobbyist. I'd like to show that it is for serious woodworking too. We've seen fine furniture, boats, a camper trailer and other things that would blow people's minds when they found out that it was built with a Shopsmith. But, I don't have the time for such an undertaking.

Anyway, I believe paulrussell is right. I'd love to see an all new web site launched in conjunction with the PowerPro.

[dusty]

I can't help but wonder what the consensus would be if all of a sudden there was NO SHOPSMITH WEBSITE.

Check out what has happened at ssug.org.

[paulrussell]

I can't help but wonder what the consensus would be if all of a sudden there was NO SHOPSMITH WEBSITE.

Yes, I agree. A poorly designed web site is better than none.

I did not start this thread because I was upset. I'm VERY happy with my $200 used Shopsmith -- so much so that I have invested about $1800 in parts, accessories, and SPTs. Nearly 1/2 of that money has gone to Shopsmith.

I started this thread because I believe Shopsmith could get a huge return on their dollar by updating the website. Others strongly disagree.

But I'm sure we can all agree that sumptin' is better than nuttin'.

BTW: This is an example of what I believe a "good web page" looks like. I've linked to a Ryobi paint system. As Shopsmith does not sell paint systems, I feel this should be OK. I'm not in any way saying this is a good product, but it is a good web page. See the detailed and bright clear photos. Click on a thumbnail to see it larger. Click on the larger image and either scroll the magnifying glass or click again to open it full-screen. A vibrant demonstration and clear explanations. A quality web page.

[heathicus]

Yes, I also agree that a bad web site is much better than no web site at all. (There's a local sign company who's slogan is "A business with no sign is a sign of no business." That can apply to web sites as well even if it's not a great site.)

And, it is not cheap to build a modern, dynamic web site. Something tells me that if they can't even afford real web hosting, then a complete web site overhaul is out of the question. But, it could pay off for them too. That decision to invest in a new web site or not is really up to them. They have to weigh the pros and cons.

I hope the admin/web developer of the site doesn't take offense. I know the company is trying to do the best they can within what is probably a very limited budget. I don't envy them.