Table Saw

[forrestb]

Since my 'shop' is half a 2-car garage when my wife's car is outside I have found my mobile SS (500->510->520) to be invaluable. I get a TS, jointer, planer, bandsaw, drill press, and lathe in about the space of a cabinet TS.

As for 4x8 plywood, yes, outfeed and infeed support is required (as would most TS, I believe) so I use 4 adjustable sawhorses for that function. I have built a table/fence extension (from a FWW article) that allows me to single-handedly rip plywood even in the 8 ft dimension without binding the saw blade. Were I at home this Thanksgiving I would include a pic.

Yes, this multi-function machine 'encourages' you to plan your work to reduce multiple setups for any function. But that also gives you pause to think about how you will work. That, IMHO, improves your odds of safe work.

And, in line with other comments, with all tables installed and no blade it makes a great assembly table.

Forrest

[Ed in Tampa]

Would a zero clearance insert help? Does anybody in SS world make their own?

Ah you bring one more thing to mind that I didn't include in my post #7.

Because the table and quill/saw arbor both move Zero Clearance Inserts have a life expectancy of a few weeks. When I work on table saws I have used ZCI that were mounted on the saw 2 and 3 years ago. But no matter how careful I'm with ZCI on my SS have their opening enlarged almost everytime I change from Saw to some other configuration and then back to sawing. The change might be small, less than 1/128" but it is there nonetheless. Over time the opening grows to the point ZCI advantage is missing and I need to begin with a new one. I make ZCI by dozens and have them sitting ready to go.

[dusty]

The blade slot in my ZCI gets slightly expanded after multiple setup changes but not so much so that it does not function as a ZCI. As stated earlier, if the slot gets too large, because I need an absolute ZCI, I change it. That is seldom the case - at least for me.

[JPG]

The blade slot in my ZCI gets slightly expanded after multiple setup changes but not so much so that it does not function as a ZCI. As stated earlier, if the slot gets too large, because I need an absolute ZCI, I change it. That is seldom the case - at least for me.

Maybe yours are more dimensionally stable due to low humidity. Wonder if Ed's are 'swelling'?

[Ed in Tampa]

The blade slot in my ZCI gets slightly expanded after multiple setup changes but not so much so that it does not function as a ZCI. As stated earlier, if the slot gets too large, because I need an absolute ZCI, I change it. That is seldom the case - at least for me.

I think the key sentence is, " The blade slot in my ZCI gets slightly expanded after multiple setup changes but not so much so that it does not function as a ZCI."

I does happen. Now what is in question is how much it too much?

Like Dusty most of the time the wideing is so small it isn't a concern at all. However other times I want the side of the ZCI to rubbing the blade so any change is too much.

Like I said on the dedicated Table Saw you can mount a ZCI and it will probably be polished to a high luster before it has to be replaced because the kerf is too wide.

Not a huge problem but the author of this thread wanted to know what were the stumbling blocks keeping the SS from being the perfect tablesaw and I was pointing out the problems that I know of.

Again before we can come up with ways to solve the SS problems we need to discover them, analyse and discuss them then come up with solutions around them. Some may be unsolvable but I think many all.

Example for an outfeed table both Dusty and Nick have shown us fantastic ways to overcome the outfeed problem. Both are made to work with tilting table, which is good.

However some of the old timers here might remember most custom wood working shop table saws of old were tilting table design. This was before the production shop grade machines replaced most of them.

On those old tilting tables I remember craftsmen often had jig/fixtures/etc designed to cut perfect 33's, 45's, and 60 0r 66's without ever tilting the table. I even saw one that was adjustable but I can't remember the design. These were made to give the exact bevel not something close but exact. Perhaps combined with a Nicks or Dusty's outfeed table this would be a better solution than trying to make a holddown and knuckle so the add on outfeed could tilt.

Let us think of solutions rather than disagreeing it isn't a problem. I think we can come up with some fantastic ideas if we do.

[JPG]

I think the key sentence is, " The blade slot in my ZCI gets slightly expanded after multiple setup changes but not so much so that it does not function as a ZCI."

I does happen. Now what is in question is how much it too much?

Like Dusty most of the time the wideing is so small it isn't a concern at all. However other times I want the side of the ZCI to rubbing the blade so any change is too much.

Like I said on the dedicated Table Saw you can mount a ZCI and it will probably be polished to a high luster before it has to be replaced because the kerf is too wide.

Not a huge problem but the author of this thread wanted to know what were the stumbling blocks keeping the SS from being the perfect tablesaw and I was pointing out the problems that I know of.

As usual, Beauty is in the eye(mind) of the beholder. Near zero is far better than 1/8"!:rolleyes:

[MikeG]

My SS 500 has been the only TS i have used for 30 years, so I think that it performs the TS functions very well. I am finishing up building the "under the Mark V cabinet" and with the ZCI that I made out of some old 1/4 plywood it cut the panels very cleanly. I don't cut from full 4' x 8' sheets by myself on it, as a straight edge, a circular saw and saw horses are much easier. I wouldn't cut full 4' x 8' sheets on a traditional TS either. Once the pieces are less than 4' x 4' I use a single roller support on the out feed side. I like being able to work off the side of the table rather than behind it as I remember having to do on a traditional TS.

So the questions were:
Why does the SS leave a lot to be desired in the TS mode? Answer: It doesn't, but the "bigger is better" thinkers seem to rule.

What do you need to do to over come its weaknesses? Answer: Make a ZCI and get a roller support stand.

[Ed in Tampa]

Guys
I think many of us are missing the point of this thread.
The discussion is not a criticism of SS but rather a discussion of where the SS is weak and what can be done to overcome those problems.

To deny the SS isn't the best tablesaw is slightly absurd, it does have weaknesses but there are ways around every one of them. And I think that is what the author of this thread is looking for the various ways around those weaknesses.

Now some commonly cited weaknesses I consider invalid, such as not having enough power, or having a larger than industry standard blade bore.

However there are the problems with infeed/outfeed table that must be height adjusted each time the blade depth of cut is changed.

There is the problem of tilting the table to cut bevels, some people are very uncomfortable with this.

There is the problem of a lack of the ability to build other fixtures such as router tables, down draft sanding tables that don't have to be either removed or constantly adjusted because of configuration changes and such.

It is nonsense to try to sell everyone that the SS is perfect. It isn't but as I said above the author says he is looking for ideas to make the SS as near to perfect as it can be made.

[burkhome]

There are trade offs with all tools. The point is that you can buy one tool and a few accesories, put it in a 6 x 8 room and with planning and practice build fine furniture if you are so inclined... Do that with separate tools.

[dusty]

I will attempt to put this thread back onto its original track, Ed. The original question (restated) was "Has anyone done anything to overcome the obvious shortcomings of the Shopsmith table saw"?

Hmmm. Just what are those short comings. This might be hard but maybe I can sincerely list a couple.

The Shopsnith has a tilting table. Is that bad? What problems are caused by this serious limitation of space? I don't think this can be corrected so we'll have to learn to live with it.

The Shopsmith table, sometimes tilts when the user doesn't want a tilt! I make certain that I have the front and rear extension tubes installed; tieing the table to an extension table.

When I do want the table to tilt, getting it accurate can be a real PITA. I use a WIXEY resting on the table table and magnetically attached to a miter bar in the miter track.

The table is too small. Yes, it is a lot smaller than the Unisaw (my dream TS which I will never have). It is even smaller than many cabinet smalls - especially if we are discussing a 500. I use the extension and floating tables - sometimes many of them.

It needs an outfeed table (and maybe even a infeed table). So I built one that attaches on the outfeed side and tilts with the main table. When the outfeed table is not there (which is seldom) I relie on a workbench that is located about 3' from the outfeed edge of the saw. I have spent a lot of time trying to figure how that bench top could be elevated.

OKAY. Let's hear about what the rest of you have done to overcome all of those short comings - not just the ones I have listed but expand on solutions. With all of the apparent discontent - there must be a multitude.

THIS IS NOT ABOUT THE SHORTCOMINGS - IT IS ABOUT THE SOLUTIONS.