Trying to Understand the Differences

[JPG]

These inputs are great but when we begin pulling information together from different sources it does get confusing. Examples being the last two posts from claimdude and JPG.

Claimdude reports that he bought his machine in 1984 and it was originally configured with a one bearing quill. Simultaneously, JPG reports that the two bearing quill was introduced in October 1984 as identified by SN 19xxxx.

All that seems OKAY but then other information gets added. I now have possession of headstock SN 152166 (May/June 1983) that has a poly-v, 1 1/8hp motor, 2 bearing quill and rough gray paint. Hmmmm...The two bearing quill and the rough gray paint seem to have been in existence before the dates indicated in the charts shown on the Shopsmith site.

http://www.shopsmith.com/ownersite/faq/markv.htm

I can only conclude that either my own data is wrong or that some Shopsmiths were produced with whatever parts/assemblies were on hand at the time and that specific configurations may be in contradiction with a strict reading of the charts.

JPG, do you have other information that indicates the 19XXXX series was used to identify the introduction of the two bearing quill or was this a logical deduction? Does 13xxxx identify the 1 1/8hp motor introduction. Do all the Goldies have poly-v? What happened in 1984 to warrant this comment in the chart referenced above? - "1984 (Gray-Rough/Texture)
(provides more spindle stability). To use this upgrade, the unit must have the Poly-V drive system".

The only thing that seems absolute is that if it is rough-gray it was produced by Shopsmith, Inc or RLFShop, LLC. All other color schemes/textures were produced by someone else. I conclude that the chart is, at best, a GUIDE to determine approximate date of production with emphasis on "approximate".

The page you referenced above is a source of some of my 'deductions'.

The reference to 1963-67 smooth gray paint coincides with Magna-American production.

The s/n for Sep 1984 lists 185359. The Oct s/n listed is 190177. I assume these be the end of month s/n. I believe they made a small number of 1 bearing quill machines in Oct with a s/n of 18xxxx and late in Oct produced 177(8?) with the two bearing quills. That would be consistent with Claimdude's experience if his s/n is 18xxxx. I doubt they made 4641(+177) units in Oct since they had been running 2 to 3k per month up to then.

I believe the 1984/rough texture reference is misplaced since the reference to poly-v compatibility. That and the "provides more spindle stability" parenthetical makes me believe the paint reference belongs in the 1972 paragraph above it. Bill Mayo posted referring to a wrinkled gray 1978 Mark V he encountered. From that I conclude SS Inc. was using different paint initially.

I do not understand the s/n 13xxxx reference. The poly-v AND the 1 1/8hp motor were introduced by Magna-American in 1962. I do not believe SS Inc made any other motor size.

Your 152166 Mark V probably was upgraded to the 2 bearing quill.

Notice the inclusion of Goldies manufactured by both Yuba and Magna American in my initial post. The earlier Yuba Goldie machines were the same as the Greenies except for color. I believe Yuba produced the later greenies. I believe only Yuba made the early goldies.

[JPG]

https://forum.shopsmith.com/viewtopic.php?t=2991&highlight=poll

https://forum.shopsmith.com/viewtopic.php?t=2954&highlight=poll

https://forum.shopsmith.com/viewtopic.php?t=209&highlight=poll

Yup, I can find them.

This may be too late, but in the past the polls allowed only one 'answer'/user. As I unnerstand it you can allow more than one when it is set up. Would be nice to be able to specify a number for model trather than a 'check'.

[JPG]

If I was to post another poll with the objective of determining which Shopsmith models reside in our various shops - would this be the appropriate list?

Mark II

Mark VII

10E/10ER

Mark 5 Model 500 Greenie Built 1953-1960

Mark 5 Model 500 Goldie Built 1960-1963

Mark 5 Model 500 Gray-Smooth Built 1963-1967

Mark 5 Model 500 Gray-Rough Built 1984

Mark V Model 505

Mark V Model 510 Built 1985-Present

Mark V Model 520 Built 1999-Present

Mark 7 PowerPro Built 2010-

If this is the list, which one should be eliminated - only 10 can be included in a poll?

I would suggest:

10E/ER (Magna Engineering)

Mark 5 (Magna Engineering) Greenie

Mark 5 (Yuba) Both Greenie and Goldie/Brownie

Mark 5 (Magna-American)

Mark VII (Magna-American)

Mark V, 500 (SS Inc.)

Mark V, 505 ((SS Inc.)

Mark V, 510 (SS Inc.)

Mark V, 520 (SS Inc.)

Mark 7 (RLF dba ShopSmith)

Request the respondent to provide additional details - date acquired(specify when/if new), paint color/texture, any details they feel are relevant, updates made(Power Pro included). If they recently purchased a Mark V with Power Pro, they can specify that also.

I leave it to you to decide how to instruct them re 5xx designation. To be consistent, all respondents should either state the 'original' model purchased OR the model as 'updated'. IMHO it is more relevant what they are currently using. They can provide update/original info in a post.

This can provide additional understanding of the historical models differences if respondents post detailed info re their machines.

As I posted earlier, a multi-choice answer is preferred to accomodate those of us with multiple machines. A numeric answer capability would be super!!!!(Do not tink that be possible:()

[dusty]

I believe that you have a real good handle on this subject; far more detailed and factual than I.

The forum would be best served if you would release the poll.

Incidentally, I really like the way you reformatted the list including manufacturers and listing in the chronological order of release.

[keakap]

Dusty,

I bought mine new from Shopsmith in Oct 1984 and it came w/a 1 bearing quill. I have since upgraded it to a 2 bearing quill (actually took the quill to a machine shop and they added the extra bearing), then to the 510 table then the 520 table and now have the PPro upgrade kit on order (should ship 1st week of Jan).

Jack

Dusty-- This is a perfect (or can be) answer to the question of the "R". If the 510 table upgrade came with the 510R tag you know the label means table system and Not 2-bearing quill upgrade.

[looks like my "51%" is getting closer to 90 something.]

[keakap]

...

I can only conclude that either my own data is wrong or that some Shopsmiths were produced with whatever parts/assemblies were on hand at the time and that specific configurations may be in contradiction with a strict reading of the charts....

LOL!
I can gauran-dang-tee ya that some units went out the door (one into my car) with a grab-bag of parts from who the heck knows what various sources, some of which were (a-hem) less than pristine, so to speak.

[keakap]

Yup, I'm confused. What serial number spread are you referring to? In 1972 Shopsmith, Inc came into being but I don't know what they were manufacturing until January 1978. Who built serial numbers 1001-18858? It appears that Shopsmith might have built 18859-20359 and all subsequent.

Wow! You are in luck!

My research shows that that model 500, Serial # 152166 was delivered "new" on July 1, 1983.
Whether this helps or not, the data is indisputable.
[Alas, the research does not indicate when or via what device the unit achieved "R" status.]

[hew]

Memory after 27 years some times gets a little fussy. Now it is time to look for paper work. Hah about 10 ft from my desk I find a yellow invoice with red letterhead says Shopsmith
City - Houston TX Date - 6/21/83
Sales person 322 E Weitz Customer Jerry XXXXX Deer Park TX
Qty 1 Part# 500009 Mark V Total value $1299.00 Discount $350 Net Price $949 with Std drill package, Router kit, Molding insert, Shaper kit, Lathe kit, Sanding kit, Casters, 5/8 Arbor, Tax 5%, Total 1592.85 Shipping Collect. Delivery date was 7/5/83
Serial Number is SS-155672
This is before the double quill bearing. The paint is gray splatter texture.

[rickm808]

I brought a complete Shopsmith S/N 2448 painted in a crinkled dark grey finish about 8 years ago. I got it from the original buyer who brought it new in 1978. A beautiful new looking paint job that had not chipped or faded at the time I owned it. I sold it before before I realized how unique was this Shopsmith and its finish. Only one I have seen with this finish.

Hi Bill, My Mark V S/N 6555' purchased new in December 1978, was factory painted with...you guessed it ...wrinkle finish dark grey. And the back casting of my bandsaw, bought less than a year later, was factory painted the same way. It made for a gorgeous machines as the wrinkle finish produces of very high quality look reminiscent of movie camera and projection equipment of the era. That paint had to be applied heavily and very evenly and then baked briefly in a +/-140 degree oven to get it to wrinkle evenly, surely adding complication to the painting/production process. I recall hearing restrictions on VOC's made it nearly prohibitive for manufacturing.

So we now know it's possible that 5000 or so Mark V's could have been painted this way in 1978 which correlates with probable annual production numbers from 1973 through 1978 based on straight line extrapolation of the numbers on the Shopsmith website.

My question to all you Mark V aficionados is do you think my machine is a rare enough example such that it ought to be left in original condition (near mint I might add) rather than upgrading it to the PowerPro system?

Rick

[JPG]

Hi Bill, My Mark V S/N 6555' purchased new in December 1978, was factory painted with...you guessed it ...wrinkle finish dark grey. And the back casting of my bandsaw, bought less than a year later, was factory painted the same way. It made for a gorgeous machines as the wrinkle finish produces of very high quality look reminiscent of movie camera and projection equipment of the era. That paint had to be applied heavily and very evenly and then baked briefly in a +/-140 degree oven to get it to wrinkle evenly, surely adding complication to the painting/production process. I recall hearing restrictions on VOC's made it nearly prohibitive for manufacturing.

So we now know it's possible that 5000 or so Mark V's could have been painted this way in 1978 which correlates with probable annual production numbers from 1973 through 1978 based on straight line extrapolation of the numbers on the Shopsmith website.

My question to all you Mark V aficionados is do you think my machine is a rare enough example such that it ought to be left in original condition (near mint I might add) rather than upgrading it to the PowerPro system?

Rick

IIWM, I would not hesitate to upgrade, but would definitely retain the original guts.