Dang it woodworkers keep those fingers away from that saw blade!

[Ed in Tampa]

I noticed something when I was at the Center for Furniture Craftsmanship in Maine.

They have Sawstops and after a few months of using them, many of my fellow students were putting their hands way too close to the blade for my comfort.

When I mentioned it, several said the saw would stop if they touched the blade so they didn't need to worry about it.

To me that's just a bad idea. None of those students own Sawstops and they are developing a VERY bad habit in losing respect for the VERY dangerous spinning blade of a table saw.

I agree with the previous posts that you should do everything you can to make yourself more aware of the danger zone and always think before you begin using the saw.

-Mark

I won't go into numbers but I have been injuried more than once using my tablesaw and I have never never had blade to flesh contact.

Sawstop to me addresses only one of the many potential dangers of a tablesaw. While it is argueable the most likely there is still other real and present dangers with even a sawstop tablesaw.

Bad practices are bad practices and if they become habit can lead to serious problems.

Also as far as I know there hasn't been any reported failure of the sawstop not stopping however it is only a matter of time.

Also the practice you mentioned above is just plain stupid. The price of repair after a Sawstop incident would caution an intelligent person not to even chance it.

[JPG]

I noticed something when I was at the Center for Furniture Craftsmanship in Maine.

They have Sawstops and after a few months of using them, many of my fellow students were putting their hands way too close to the blade for my comfort.

When I mentioned it, several said the saw would stop if they touched the blade so they didn't need to worry about it.

To me that's just a bad idea. None of those students own Sawstops and they are developing a VERY bad habit in losing respect for the VERY dangerous spinning blade of a table saw.

I agree with the previous posts that you should do everything you can to make yourself more aware of the danger zone and always think before you begin using the saw.

-Mark

What!

Are you implying that being 'overprotected' makes one 'undercautious'?:eek:

My My! What goes around comes around.

You have (re)discovered the fallacy of the 'protect one from thyself mentality'.

Bet if those students had to pay for 'restoring' the sawstop to functionality(including new blade) they would see it in a different light.

Wonder if the 'administrator' has that in their budget?

[shipwright]

Somebody has to speak up for the guy in the photo above. What he's doing is perfectly safe if he's experienced and on the ball. The hand you see is stationary and guiding the workpiece, not pushing it. He's pushing with his other hand because the other end of the piece is too far from the blade to have any control with the push stick. He does have it ready to use when the time comes. The only thing that I do differently is that I use a shoe style pusher because I'm less likely to slip with it and it gives me better control.

Just my opinion, but after forty years on table saws I can still count to eleven.

Paul M

[mickyd]

Somebody has to speak up for the guy in the photo above. What he's doing is perfectly safe if he's experienced and on the ball. The hand you see is stationary and guiding the workpiece, not pushing it. He's pushing with his other hand because the other end of the piece is too far from the blade to have any control with the push stick. He does have it ready to use when the time comes. The only thing that I do differently is that I use a shoe style pusher because I'm less likely to slip with it and it gives me better control.

Just my opinion, but after forty years on table saws I can still count to eleven.

Paul M

NEVER in a million years will I get my pinkies that close to a spinning saw blade (again). Just my luck we'll have an earthquake at that instant and my saw will walk across the floor with my finger(s) on the table. I'll stick to respecting the safety zone. It hurts a lot less.

[moose]

Thank you Shipwright and praise the Lord for your opinion. I agree with your observations for I pratice this exact technique too. All too much, people base their opinions on a static picture and without regard to what actually happens. We love to sometimes criticize the techniques or methods used by others without knowing the whole picture, intent or experience of the operator or methods he/she may have.

[joedw00]

THAT IS WHAT FEATHERBOARDS, HOLD-DOWNS ETC. ARE FOR!!!
...

I still have to agree with Farmer. It may take a little bit of time to set up, but worth it. If you are going to publish a picture, it needs to look safe, or state that something has been removed for clarity.

[JPG]

Somebody has to speak up for the guy in the photo above. What he's doing is perfectly safe if he's experienced and on the ball. The hand you see is stationary and guiding the workpiece, not pushing it. He's pushing with his other hand because the other end of the piece is too far from the blade to have any control with the push stick. He does have it ready to use when the time comes. The only thing that I do differently is that I use a shoe style pusher because I'm less likely to slip with it and it gives me better control.

Just my opinion, but after forty years on table saws I can still count to eleven.

Paul M

Hmmmm! Must be a red maple leaf thing!:D

Gotta admit I did NOT notice the extent of the workpiece at the opposite end from the blade(outa pix range).

I agree!(now) I did not think he was merely guiding the workpiece, but thought he was pushing it with that hand in the pix. Indeed he will be more successful at that task(guiding) closer than the end of the insert(INSIDE THE 'RED' DANGER ZONE!!!!!) than 'out of it'(further away).

You might as well have company on that non PC bus! Welcome aboard.

Blame Farmer! He planted the 'seed'. Wonder if he sees it differently(now)?

BTW I would have my finger more on the side away from the fence(rather than on top) to better exert pressure to the workpiece towards the fence.

I do not think that workpiece is likely to 'explode' and if the fence to blade alignment is correct AND he successfully maintains contact of the workpiece against the fence, kickback is unlikely. Gotta admit having never experienced kickback(but then I do not rely on a riving knife or a saw guard so I can SEE when a pinching condition is 'likely' and (GASP) reach over with the 'other hand' and ensure the workpiece remains firmly against the fence(beyond the backside of the blade)). Gotta be real alert on workpieces that might 'curl' when being ripped!

Eleven? I can count to 21!:D(use front and back of those fingers);)

[robinson46176]

Somebody has to speak up for the guy in the photo above. What he's doing is perfectly safe if he's experienced and on the ball. The hand you see is stationary and guiding the workpiece, not pushing it. He's pushing with his other hand because the other end of the piece is too far from the blade to have any control with the push stick. He does have it ready to use when the time comes. The only thing that I do differently is that I use a shoe style pusher because I'm less likely to slip with it and it gives me better control.

Just my opinion, but after forty years on table saws I can still count to eleven.

Paul M

Ah ha... but like me you have long experience in working with dangerous stuff. I am very good at working with very dangerous stuff ranging from killer farm equipment to shoe and boot machinery with a herd of open shafts and belts and pulleys to all kinds of unguarded factory machinery.
You have to remember that a whole herd of hobby woodworkers have never had any exposure to that kind of danger and many have no real grasp of what is actually truly dangerous. That shows in the surprise that many express at things that happen.
Not long ago a number of forum members talked of cutting into a miter gauge with the saw blade. That is an incident that I just can't grasp in my mind at all... I would never dream of making a cut and not seeing exactly what the blade was cutting at all times and knowing exactly where that miter gauge (and my hands) were at all of the time and where they will be as the cut progresses.
Some of those things are a little like things I see with some of my (very nice) city raised neighbors that came to the country and put up new houses. Most of them end up with an old farm tractor and a bush-hog to cut their back lots. My son watched one try to set an outfit up and then called me saying "you have to go help him before he kills himself"... The many dangerous mistakes he was making were things that I had learned before I was 8. I had taught my son those things by about the same age. It is not that my neighbors are dumb, just untrained not only in specifics but even in generalities. Another neighbor (a very good friend) was mowing with an 8N Ford tractor with a bush-hog on the back. His wife was mowing with a walking mower right next to where he was mowing (a major mistake right there). They came together at a corner and she thought he would stop and he thought she would stop and he ended up running over the walking mower with the tractor. They laughed about it but it could have easily killed someone and to this day they have no idea just how dangerous the event was.
I would not begin to tell any of them that putting a hand that close to a spinning blade was OK.

[JPG]

So Francis, if I unnerstand you correctly, your main point was the display of a 'dangerous' situation(hand inside the 'danger zone') to the 'masses' was 'irresponsible'. I agree in that context

As for Farmer(or other older but wiser individuals), it be 'ok' as long as the danger was recognized and actions taken accordingly. In that context, I agree with Shipwright(and you).

That however is not the more common mindset today. Today everything is supposed 'to be safe'. Nothing could be further from 'reality'.

The frustrating part of this is the total lack of understanding 'personal risk management' today. i.e. If I get hurt, it is because 'somebody else' did or did not 'do something differently'. I fault lawyers and the juries that make their pursuit(pun indended) lucrative. But I digress!:(

[shipwright]

I was just sticking up for the gent running the saw. If he knows what he's doing, and it looks like he does, I wouldn't get too excited. Printing that picture in a magazine aimed at hobby woodworkers is another case and probably not a very good idea.

Paul M