Shopsmith Forums

michaeltoc wrote:When I upgraded to the 520 and ordered the shaper insert I got what you described. Simple fix - I used a hole saw to drill out the insert so now the drum sander fits.

I don't believe you really want to do that. There are inserts available and the cost is not unreasonable.

More importantly, there are functional differences that necessitate these two inserts for the 510/520.

Thanks, Dusty and Michael. I now see that there are in fact two different inserts for the 510/520, but it does seem odd in that there is only one insert for the model 500, a dual-purpose insert for both drum sanding and shaping.

It took a couple of looks at those two references to notice the difference. And, it's also a bit misleading as the large red letters at the top of the one page says "Shaper/Drum Sander Table Insert." Then when you look at the two different inserts, it lists item 505509 as a "Shaper/Drum Sander Insert" for the 500 while item 555122 for the 510/520 is listed as only a "Shaper Table Insert."

The difference in hole sizes in the two inserts is so minimal, I can't see the need for two different types, especially since the 500 insert only comes in one flavor. Enlarging the hole as Michael did with a hole saw is something I've been contemplating as well. The only thing that stopped me from doing that already is that I don't have the right sized hole saw, and I didn't want to hack the thing up with a scroll saw or jig saw. The only impact I see resulting from enlarging the hole is that the two starting pins would no longer be on the same center line as the hole. And I'm not sure that's a big deal. Those pins only come into play when you're starting a free handed cut on the shaper, and they really don't need to be located in any specific place. You'd also be cutting into the ribbing on the bottom of the insert, but I'm not sure that hurts either.

Perhaps I'll just make a new insert out of 1/4" Masonite.

dusty wrote:Yes, there are two different inserts with round holes. The difference being in the size and location of the holes.

http://www.shopsmith.com/ownersite/cata ... nserts.htm

http://www.shopsmith.com/ownersite/cata ... insert.htm

Why would they need a different size hole and in a different location?
I might be able to understand the hole size difference but I can't the location difference. Anyone know why the hole had to be relocated?

Now I see that they sell two different inserts. When I ordered, I saw the "Shaper/Drum sander" insert page, but did not see that the 520 insert was listed for "shaper only".

The pin locations of both inserts appear to be on the centerline, so enlarging the hole does not affect the operation.

dusty wrote: More importantly, there are functional differences that necessitate these two inserts for the 510/520.

I'm not sure what you mean by "functional differences". It would seem that the larger drum sander insert would be fine for shaping (that's what the model 500 uses). I haven't used the Mark V for shaping yet, but plan to in the future. Is there a safety or some other issue that necessitates the smaller hole of the shaper insert?

michaeltoc wrote:I'm not sure what you mean by "functional differences". It would seem that the larger drum sander insert would be fine for shaping (that's what the model 500 uses). I haven't used the Mark V for shaping yet, but plan to in the future. Is there a safety or some other issue that necessitates the smaller hole of the shaper insert?

This really is not an issue of 500 vs 510. It is an issue of shaper vs sanding drum (size). I will post a couple pictures in a short while to make my point.

Obviously, if you intend to use the insert with the sanding drum, the hole must be large enough for the drum to fit thru.

What you do want in a minimal space between the edge of the insert (hole) and the cutting/sanding device. If you use the enlarged hole while using a shaper cutter, there is significant space between the ends of the cutter and the edge of the insert. This is a potential hazard that I think you want to avoid and I understand to be the primary reason for the two different inserts.

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The insert with the larger hole (Sanding Insert) could certainly be used with the shaper cutter installed. I am certain that it is done all the time without consequence. It is that one time that earns us an opportunity to learn that we should not have done that.

Just my humble opinion but PLEASE go Make Sawdust Safely not precariously.
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But, can't you simply move the table closer to the shaper cutter and achieve the same thing as you get by using a slightly smaller hole? And, if you were shaping on the model 500, that's what you'd have to do. When the 500 was the only Shopsmith version around, Shopsmith didn't think that two separate inserts were necessary. Perhaps, it had something to do with how the shaper fence mounts to the 510/520 table, using bolts instead of the clamps on the model 500 fence. Maybe the 510/520 fence doesn't have enough movement to cover the added distance, though small, that a larger hole would require with the cutter adjusted for a minimum gap at the front of the hole. In any event, I now know that there are two types of inserts.

pennview wrote:Shopsmith didn't think that two separate inserts were necessary.

Design improvements are often made by lawyers, not engineers.

Thanks, Dusty, for clarifying. I can see now why the smaller hole would be better for the shaper. Using the large hole moved forward as Art suggested could work, but a larger than necessary gap would be at the infeed and outfeed sides of the cutter. $28 is a small price to pay for safety.

There are a number of different examples where the original Shopsmith design has been changed to what it is today. We will never know why those changes were made but I believe that safety was often the issue.

The larger table may be one example. The fact that they no longer produce the Crafter's Station may be another and the PowerPro is certainly another.

Design changes occur for a number of reasons, some of which are never obvious.

I believe that the inserts fall into one of those safety categories. No matter why there are these two different inserts, I have and use both.

Whatever you chose to do - be safe.

Ed is still waiting for someone to explain why it was relocated! As am I!;)