Shopsmith Forums

beeg wrote:I'd just like to trow in. How HARD is it to make two intersecting lines and place the drill bit point at the crossing?

Annnnd how do you know where to position the workpiece 'at the cross hairs' if you have not already marked it????????:rolleyes:

Don't take any negativity regarding this product as a slight against the engineers that came up with it. It is doable. but just because something is doable doesn't mean it should be done.

I see lasers guides on a drill press or any other woodworking tool for that matter as a solution without a problem. Unless the problem is how to boost sales...


**********Sarcasm and humor warning***********
The following is intended to be humorous and contains sarcasm.
If you don't think it's funny, please feel free to comment. Just remember to take this bit of humor for what it's worth and remember how much you paid.
I'll gladly refund your money;)
******************************************:D
Here is my take on how it went down at corporate somewhere.

Management to Marketing: Drill Press sales are x% below saw sales why is that?

Marketing to Management: We've been tracking this trend, ever since we added laser guides to our saws, sales on those models have increased. I recommend adding laser guides to drill presses.

Management turns to Manufacturing: Put laser guides on drill presses. Manufacturing just gives a blank stare wondering how he is going to sell this to his designers and engineers. He opts to just have the designers handle it as they are more aware of how temperamental engineers can be and can deal with it better.

Manufacturing to Design team: Top brass says we need to add laser guides to a couple of drill press models to increase sales. Get the engineers on board. and get this put into testing and production as soon as possible.

Design to engineering after an already lengthy and heated discussion. I know it's hard, that's why you get paid. This needs to happen because management said it must.

The engineers strive to find something workable. and put it into testing.

Product Testers are less than impressed with the drill press lasers. Simultaneously and separately from the product testing Marketing has conducted focus groups and research and have determined that sales will improve if the lasers are added.

Company decides to put the laser on and sell the hell out of them knowing full well that any perception of improved accuracy is dubious at best, but sales are sales and the revenue at the end of the quarter is all that matters.

Consumer after using final product: WTF? This is a piece of junk and a bigger pain than just measuring carefully and lining the hole up like I always have.

Impact: Slight uptick in drill press sales for the quarter due to consumers being dazzled by the shiny red light! Later, consumers realize that laser guides are marginally effective on any tool.

Meanwhile the differences in sales from one tool to another has stabilized back to where it normally belongs. Putting lasers on the drill press gets the credit though and Marketing, Manufacturing, Design and engineering all get a bonus.

Years Later a happy consumer decides he is going to test the theory that a laser shined directly into the eye is bad even though there are bright yellow warning stickers all over the machine and big bold print warnings in the user's manual (which later in court the consumer will admit to never reading) to attest to the fact. The now blind consumer gets a good lawyer and successfully sues the manufacturer for millions. Big government determines that "Eye Sensing Technology" must be installed on all consumer level lasers that will instantly shut off the laser so no future harm will ever occur from laser guides.

I know well how engineers react to be told they must incorporate a specific "feature" into their design. I have seen this from the design side and I have caused it to happen from the test side. You are pretty close to "right on".

Marketing can cause things like this to happen but they very seldom take credit when sales do not react as predicted.

That is life as I saw it in engineering and manufacturing.

dusty wrote:I know well how engineers react to be told they must incorporate a specific "feature" into their design. I have seen this from the design side and I have caused it to happen from the test side. You are pretty close to "right on".

Marketing can cause things like this to happen but they very seldom take credit when sales do not react as predicted.

That is life as I saw it in engineering and manufacturing.

Yeah, based on my experience if the sales don't go as predicted, the blame goes to manufacturing for not getting it right or the economy or some other factor. Very Rarely have I seen marketing take a hit for a bad idea.

Ah, but the circular saw laser, that's a wonderfull thing. My work with a hand held circular saw is much better with the use of one. Particularly the one that replaces the blade clamp washer.

1. It turns itself on and off automatically.

2. It rides perfectly parallel to my blade.

3. It lets me see if my blade is actually on the same angle as the line I drew and plan to cut along (something I'm notoriously bad at).

On my chop saw, it lets me see across the moulding where the blade will be cutting for real, not what my incorrect angles told me it was going to cut (which is also notoriously wrong)

foxtrapper wrote:Ah, but the circular saw laser, that's a wonderfull thing. My work with a hand held circular saw is much better with the use of one. Particularly the one that replaces the blade clamp washer.

1. It turns itself on and off automatically.

2. It rides perfectly parallel to my blade.

3. It lets me see if my blade is actually on the same angle as the line I drew and plan to cut along (something I'm notoriously bad at).

On my chop saw, it lets me see across the moulding where the blade will be cutting for real, not what my incorrect angles told me it was going to cut (which is also notoriously wrong)

Gene Howell gave me a Craftsman 10" Compound Miter Saw that works great except for the laser.

It does not turn on like it should. Got new batteries. Took it all apart, checked it checked the switch - everything works.

Put it back together and the switch does not work. Got to get a new switch assembly from Sears (I hope).

I have a Craftsman 10" SCMS with a laser. It's close but if I want really accurate:

Measure twice mark clearly and sneak up on the final cut. The laser works well for the initial gross cut but the final finish cut is all about your markings and knowing the characteristics of the blade you are using.

The laser also works well when tolerance greater than 1/16 is in play. Think construction grade projects. Less than 1/1/6 tolerance and you have to pay close attention so I usually just turn off the laser so it doesn't distract me.

I have found an additional use for that laser though. My SS is usually positioned perpendicular to the SCMS. With the laser on I can use it to cast a visible line down the length my SS. This makes aligning the lathe center eccentric really easy.

Yep!!! Even woodworkers should be cognizant of marketing/management in the tool world. This applies to hand held as well as powered tools. Then we need to think about the practicability of the "new" things.

I've been fooled a couple times about re-chargable battery powered tools:( . From now on - It's on me!;)

(Ed - I heard you)

Now wouldn't it be cool if the drill bit was hollow and the laser beam came from the bit itself? It's early, maybe I'm still dreaming

tomsalwasser wrote:Now wouldn't it be cool if the drill bit was hollow and the laser beam came from the bit itself? It's early, maybe I'm still dreaming

That will surely increase sales $ while it drastically decreases sales volume!

Kinda wonder how the bit pilots on the air though!:D