Shopsmith Forums

I don't post that much, but this string really caught my attention. The original post requested people critical of the SS were asked not to comment if they hadn't bought the equipment new. I bought mine in 2003 used, and have loved to use it ever since.
I've upgraded from the 510 to 520 and now have the power-pro. At 73 years, I now need the lift-assist. My three major SS special tools; the band-saw, jointer and belt-sander are on their own power stands, as well as the DeWalt 735 planner.
Maybe I'm just a "hobbyist," now but I continue to use all five SS functions to build benches for my Vet's club and a lot of smaller "stuff," for my grandkids, and for Xmas gifts. I really object to Mr. DeCristoforo's son's remarks, mostly because of the great small footprint SS offers, but also of its quality. Living up in Wisconsin, with an unheated garage, keeps me out of my favorite hobby workspace in winter (Here, late Oct thru April).
My only frustration, at times, is while using the table saw, I have to reposition my out-feed table when making secondary cuts. This doesn't happen when I'm using all my special tools. (And another reason way I didn't buy the SS planner.)

[quote="smredleg"]I don't post that much, but this string really caught my attention. The original post requested people critical of the SS were asked not to comment if they hadn't bought the equipment new. I bought mine in 2003 used, and have loved to use it ever since.
I've upgraded from the 510 to 520 and now have the power-pro. At 73 years, I now need the lift-assist. My three major SS special tools]

I don't disagree with anything you said but let me ask this question would you now knowing what you know go buy a new Shopsmith for nearly $4000 and Bandsaw for $544 a jointer for $489 and belt sander for $429 and three power stands for $1080 for a total of nearly $6500?

Ed in Tampa wrote:I don't disagree with anything you said but let me ask this question would you now knowing what you know go buy a new Shopsmith for nearly $4000 and Bandsaw for $544 a jointer for $489 and belt sander for $429 and three power stands for $1080 for a total of nearly $6500?

To put things in perspective...
Maybe someone knows what that same Shopsmith stuff would have cost (OK, some of it didn't exist yet) in 1963 when My wife and I got married???

I do know for a fact that a new car is now roughly 10 times now what it was in 1963. Dutch-Hurst Motors in Muncie Indiana was selling a new Morris Minor 2 door for $1200. The BSU campus was full of them.

I do know for a fact that the first old house that we bought in 1965 for $5,000 would sell today in a heartbeat (even in current down housing times) for over $50,000 (10 times more). My sister recently sold a similar house for $65,000.

I do know for a fact that I started at my first off farm job in 1962 for $1.36 an hour (and I really struggled to find anybody hiring in 1962) and that a similar entry level job is not that hard to find in Central Indiana today paying 10 times that amount. As a side note a friend started working in that same factory in 1957 working at .75 cents an hour... I just double checked and the current federal minimum wage is $7.25 an hour. Burger flipping in Central Indiana now starts at $10 to $14 an hour. I can take you out and show you the window signs all over Indianapolis.

I know for a fact that gasoline is an easy 10 times what it was in 1963...

I know for a fact that in 1963 I could go to a local hamburger joint (and regularly did, it was called "The Nickel Nook") and eat a lunch of 4 small hamburgers and a glass of Coke for .50 cents... Find a decent lunch regularly for much under $5 today... Hell, look at what people are paying for a stinking bottle of water. If you had told me in 1963 that people would be actually PAYING for a bottle of water in the future I would have laughed in your face.

I know from personal experience that in 1963 that you could take a pair of womens shoes to a shoe shop and get new heels on them for .75 cents a pair. In my shop in 1976 we charged $3 a pair and today most of the guys on the shoe repair forum I belong to are charging about $13 a pair for them...

I could drag this out for several pages... It is simply the case that overall a huge amount of everyday stuff including most folks income is now 10 times higher than it was in 1963... Why shouldn't a Shopsmith be around 10 times more???

Like I said, maybe someone has paperwork showing Shopsmith prices for 1963. I don't but I bet that 10 times more today isn't unreasonably that far off of the mark.


.

Ed in Tampa wrote:As for the set screw issue I have never heard of a blade coming off any saw bolt on arbor or set screw so I don't worry about that much.

But fail to tighten the set screw and use the machine versus failing to tighten the arbor nut. No the blade probably won't come off but you do stand a real good chance of set screw doing some real nasty damage scoring your quill arbor.

While the tablesaw will probably tighten the nut onto the blade with no damage.

Get to know what your machine sounds like. When the set screw is loose enough for the arbor to move on the shaft, you will know that something is wrong, It won't sound right.

If using a ZCI, you'll detect it sooner.

When this happens, replace the set screw. Some people don't do this but "throw the old one away". There is a reason why it was removed - don't put it back in some where else.

2 cents worth from a newbee,

A few months ago I decided to try woodworking to replace my "outgrown" hobby of restoring "LBC's" (little British cars).
I have a space about 14 x 22 and only owned a radial arm saw and usual hand tools.

Back in the 1980's a neighbor had a SS and I liked the way it worked, but thought before looking into one of these now I'd price individual items.

At a local "Tool Shed" I got sticker shock... I told the sales person I wanted to spend about 7K on equipment. When he hit 10K for table saw, bandsaw, jointer, lathe, and drill press (alot imported) I said thanks and got depressed. Ended up getting my 1981 Mark 500 in great shape for $750, added the bandsaw, jointer and beltsander for about another $750, and have spent another $500 or so on Thingys, both new and used. Am having a ball. The radial arm saw seems to be a good compliment to the SS.

I think I made the right decision, and after a few "starter projects" am seeing my learning curve doing great, with the help of this site. Thanks !

robinson46176 wrote:To put things in perspective...
Maybe someone knows what that same Shopsmith stuff would have cost (OK, some of it didn't exist yet) in 1963 when My wife and I got married???

I do know for a fact that a new car is now roughly 10 times now what it was in 1963. Dutch-Hurst Motors in Muncie Indiana was selling a new Morris Minor 2 door for $1200. The BSU campus was full of them.

I do know for a fact that the first old house that we bought in 1965 for $5,000 would sell today in a heartbeat (even in current down housing times) for over $50,000 (10 times more). My sister recently sold a similar house for $65,000.

I do know for a fact that I started at my first off farm job in 1962 for $1.36 an hour (and I really struggled to find anybody hiring in 1962) and that a similar entry level job is not that hard to find in Central Indiana today paying 10 times that amount. As a side note a friend started working in that same factory in 1957 working at .75 cents an hour... I just double checked and the current federal minimum wage is $7.25 an hour. Burger flipping in Central Indiana now starts at $10 to $14 an hour. I can take you out and show you the window signs all over Indianapolis.

I know for a fact that gasoline is an easy 10 times what it was in 1963...

I know for a fact that in 1963 I could go to a local hamburger joint (and regularly did, it was called "The Nickel Nook") and eat a lunch of 4 small hamburgers and a glass of Coke for .50 cents... Find a decent lunch regularly for much under $5 today... Hell, look at what people are paying for a stinking bottle of water. If you had told me in 1963 that people would be actually PAYING for a bottle of water in the future I would have laughed in your face.

I know from personal experience that in 1963 that you could take a pair of womens shoes to a shoe shop and get new heels on them for .75 cents a pair. In my shop in 1976 we charged $3 a pair and today most of the guys on the shoe repair forum I belong to are charging about $13 a pair for them...

I could drag this out for several pages... It is simply the case that overall a huge amount of everyday stuff including most folks income is now 10 times higher than it was in 1963... Why shouldn't a Shopsmith be around 10 times more???

Like I said, maybe someone has paperwork showing Shopsmith prices for 1963. I don't but I bet that 10 times more today isn't unreasonably that far off of the mark.


.

1963 SS(Magna American) 'catalog'.

NO. 700000 - 1 1/8 HP, 115 VOLT, SINGLE CYCLE - LIST . . . . . . $259.00

NO. 705000 - 1 HP, 115-230 VOLT, DUAL CYCLE - LIST . . . . . . . $275.00

SHAPER CUTTERS $8.25

WORK LAMP $10.75

LIVE CENTER $5.75
TAILSTOCK CHUCK ARBOR $2.50
SCREW CENTER $2.75

RETRACTABLE CASTERS $16.50

1 1/4" SAW ARBOR $3.25
5/8" SAW ARBOR $2.50
TABLE INSERT $2.25
SHAPER TABLE INSERT(WITH PINS) $3.25

MITER GAUGE EXTENSION $1.65
MITER GAUGE STOP ROD $1.95
MITER GAUGE SAFETY GRIP $10.75

SANDING BELTS 6X48 $2.5O
12" SANDING DISCS $2.75
SANDING DRUM 2 1/4" (6) $1.95

ROUTER CHUCK $3.25
ROUTER BIT $3.25

SHAPER FENCE $16.95

COUPLING KIT(4 HUBS & COUPLER) $4.95

1/2" JACOBS CHUCK $11.50

4" JOINTER $69.50
11" BANDSAW $84.50
6" BELT SANDER $64.50
18" JIGSAW $64.50
MORTISING CHISEL/BIT SET $9.75
MORTISING ATTACHMENT $5.75
MORTISING HOLD DOWN $4.25
PTWFE $5.95


Ahhhhhhh Remember the good old days!;)

Since we are comparing ....
Farmer, out of 1.36$ an hour, how much a week were you having in your pocket "net" at the end ... Were you doing 40 hours / week ?

Out of today's salaries, the net income may be, out of 10 or 14$ an hour ?

Much more goes into income fed and state taxes, health insurance and other deductions ... and then in some states, there is sales taxes when buying something brand new ...

So that is why personally, I go for a used items when I can find it. If it is in good condition and the original manual and box are there, boy, do I go for this item.

I still bought my Mark V new from Shopsmith, but then I was making 12$/hour in 1988.

[quote="JPG40504"]1963 SS(Magna American) 'catalog'.

NO. 700000 - 1 1/8 HP, 115 VOLT, SINGLE CYCLE - LIST . . . . . . $259.00

NO. 705000 - 1 HP, 115-230 VOLT, DUAL CYCLE - LIST . . . . . . . $275.00

SHAPER CUTTERS $8.25

WORK LAMP $10.75

LIVE CENTER $5.75
TAILSTOCK CHUCK ARBOR $2.50
SCREW CENTER $2.75

RETRACTABLE CASTERS $16.50

1 1/4" SAW ARBOR $3.25
5/8" SAW ARBOR $2.50
TABLE INSERT $2.25
SHAPER TABLE INSERT(WITH PINS) $3.25

MITER GAUGE EXTENSION $1.65
MITER GAUGE STOP ROD $1.95
MITER GAUGE SAFETY GRIP $10.75

SANDING BELTS 6X48 $2.5O
12" SANDING DISCS $2.75
SANDING DRUM 2 1/4" (6) $1.95

ROUTER CHUCK $3.25
ROUTER BIT $3.25

SHAPER FENCE $16.95

COUPLING KIT(4 HUBS & COUPLER) $4.95

1/2" JACOBS CHUCK $11.50

4" JOINTER $69.50
11" BANDSAW $84.50
6" BELT SANDER $64.50
18" JIGSAW $64.50
MORTISING CHISEL/BIT SET $9.75
MORTISING ATTACHMENT $5.75
MORTISING HOLD DOWN $4.25
PTWFE $5.95


Ahhhhhhh Remember the good old days!]
Ahhh, those were the good old days. I was five years into my military career. My total taxable income that year was $2580. Remember - subsistance allowance and housing allowance were non-taxable. If I remember correctly, housing was 77.10 and I don't remember subsistence but I think it was something like $1.10 a day.

PS: Subsistence was actually $48.10 a month. I should have known to ask the financial officer rather than guess.

Yup, those sure were the good old days.

No wonder I didn't have a Shopsmith yet.

Billdit wrote:2 cents worth from a newbee,

A few months ago I decided to try woodworking to replace my "outgrown" hobby of restoring "LBC's" (little British cars).
I have a space about 14 x 22 and only owned a radial arm saw and usual hand tools.

Back in the 1980's a neighbor had a SS and I liked the way it worked, but thought before looking into one of these now I'd price individual items.

At a local "Tool Shed" I got sticker shock... I told the sales person I wanted to spend about 7K on equipment. When he hit 10K for table saw, bandsaw, jointer, lathe, and drill press (alot imported) I said thanks and got depressed. Ended up getting my 1981 Mark 500 in great shape for $750, added the bandsaw, jointer and beltsander for about another $750, and have spent another $500 or so on Thingys, both new and used. Am having a ball. The radial arm saw seems to be a good compliment to the SS.

I think I made the right decision, and after a few "starter projects" am seeing my learning curve doing great, with the help of this site. Thanks !

You making my point you went to USED Shopsmith. Buying the same things from Shopsmith would cost you more than the $7,000.

I don't know where your tool shed was coming with prices but I can out fit a shop with a really nice Saw, 6" jointer, lathe, drill press, 14" jig saw, disk/belt sander, mortizing machine, cut off saw and associated equipment for a lot less than $7000.

Ed, there is a problem with this discussion every time it comes up. Your figures for what is would cost to replace the Shopsmith shop with stand alones is always way different than my estimates.

There can only be one explanation (maybe two). Your list of equipments that would constitute a suitable setup (in less than 400 sq ft') has got to be way different than mine.

Here is an example of what I think is the likely cause. My first choice for a replacement table saw (what I have always wanted but could not have). Notice how much of your budget has been shot and we cannot even drill a hole.