New casters

[JPG]

[quote="keakap"]Now, now, let's be inclusive, fair and balanced, and add:
yada yada yada.


]

Aloha! Aloha! Aloha!;)

[fiatben]

[quote="JPG40504"] if the legs are not 1/4" off the floor and 1/2" off the floor in the two raised positions respectively, they are not operating 'properly'QUOTE]

Man, this is a long thread!!! I just read it from beginning to the current page (#20) and still haven't answered my own questions. My 510 is having rolling problems, which is why I'm reading this thread. Not sure I should add my pics and problems to this thread or not.

However, in reading this and thinking about my situation, a question kept popping up in my head, so I gotta ask.....

What is the point in having two raised heights??? For me, either the machine is sitting on the floor and being used, or it is up in the air and being moved.

And the question I really need answered (well, one of MANY) is how to I get mine to raise up HIGHER so that I can move it around in my old barn/shop that has 2x4 expansion joints between areas of the concrete slab that I currently have to physically LIFT my SS's over to get to another space.

And I need to know if my old wheels are shot or salvageable, but should that be a different thread?

[JPG]

if the legs are not 1/4" off the floor and 1/2" off the floor in the two raised positions respectively, they are not operating 'properly'QUOTE]

Man, this is a long thread!!! I just read it from beginning to the current page (#20) and still haven't answered my own questions. My 510 is having rolling problems, which is why I'm reading this thread. Not sure I should add my pics and problems to this thread or not.

However, in reading this and thinking about my situation, a question kept popping up in my head, so I gotta ask.....

What is the point in having two raised heights??? For me, either the machine is sitting on the floor and being used, or it is up in the air and being moved.

And the question I really need answered (well, one of MANY) is how to I get mine to raise up HIGHER so that I can move it around in my old barn/shop that has 2x4 expansion joints between areas of the concrete slab that I currently have to physically LIFT my SS's over to get to another space.

And I need to know if my old wheels are shot or salvageable, but should that be a different thread?

Sounds to me like you are a prime candidate for larger wheels.

I cannot answer why the two raised positions, only Hans knows for sure and he ain't talking today.

FWIW a 1953 'catalog' specifically refers to 1/4" and 1/2" off the floor!

[terrydowning]

I just tore down my caster assemblies for cleaning and learned a few things. I was also wondering if I could increase the throw of the casters to generate more height.

On each end of the rod with the foot lever is a cam. That cam has three distinct heights. The cam rotates and pushes a piston that houses the caster.

Short of redesigning the cam to increase the throw, which leads to redesigning the housing that holds everything together which turns into a complete re-engineering the entire caster assembly. I can't think of a simple way to increase the throw of the casters. I'll just live with the 1/2 inch. I suspect that the reason for the steps of 1/4" and 1/2" is to reduce the strain of lifting the machine.

I can't imagine SS is interested in redesigning the caster assembly. Especially in this day and age of product liability lawsuits and all of the testing required to bring a product to market now.

[Ed in Tampa]

I these a definitive answer? Do the new caster and templates work or not?

After reading this forum some say the casters don't work others say they do but that the template is wrong. Still others say both are right and then there are those that say neither is right. Finally some have to file levers and others don't.

What is the fact?

[JPG]

I these a definitive answer? Do the new caster and templates work or not?

After reading this forum some say the casters don't work others say they do but that the template is wrong. Still others say both are right and then there are those that say neither is right. Finally some have to file levers and others don't.

What is the fact?

Part of the confusion I think is a difference in understanding what 'works' is. I have made my 'opinion' clear that the new casters should elevate the legs off the floor the same as the original(as in model 10 and all that followed).

As I stated above that is 1/4", 1/2" [and <0]. I am not sure that who ever came up with the drill template has the same understanding.

Not having either the drill template nor the new SS casters, I cannot ascertain either, but do believe from all the discussion that the template does not provide 1/4" leg/ground clearance in the low 'raised' position, so the template is causing holes to be drilled too high on the leg.

Add to that the possible upside down confusion, and without someone who has both the template and the casters publishing some pix and dimensions and instructions, we will continue to be in our current nebulous state!:(

P.S. The casters are a constant, so the only thing possibly wrong is the template or the instruction for using it. I be assuming the bore of the pistons into which the caster stem sets in is also constant. If not, that could be a source of variation.

[robinson46176]

While not the same as Shopsmith's spin there is an excellent reason for the two height steps. If you did it with a two position cam instead of three you would have to rotate the cam at least 180° to lift it. That would be quite a trick with just two feet available and needing at least one of them to stand on. Only by lifting in two steps can you accomplish a 180° rotation using only one foot. If we were three legged creatures it would be a different matter.
Now if you were to use a hand crank mounted at the bench tubes and a chain drive down to the caster cam shaft then you would only need one up position and down.


.

[JPG]

While not the same as Shopsmith's spin there is an excellent reason for the two height steps. If you did it with a two position cam instead of three you would have to rotate the cam at least 180° to lift it. That would be quite a trick with just two feet available and needing at least one of them to stand on. Only by lifting in two steps can you accomplish a 180° rotation using only one foot. If we were three legged creatures it would be a different matter.
Now if you were to use a hand crank mounted at the bench tubes and a chain drive down to the caster cam shaft then you would only need one up position and down.


.

What's magic about 180°?;) A flat cam surface that raises it 1/2" would work at a much smaller angle(might take a gorilla to elevate it:D).

I believe due to the reduced foot pedal motion that the two step allows a step at each depression of the pedal with a reasonable amount of foot pressure each and the large rotation angle when lowering prevents the foot pedal from smacking yer foot as it accelerates.

[terrydowning]

And the larger the step, the more leverage would be required. Thus the 1/4" and 1/2" steps.

[fjimp]

After a discussion with Shopsmith Jan I realized there is room for all of the opinions discussed above.

First some of oldest machines are going to be more difficult to make the new wheels work efficiently. The details allude me thus I suggest having the date of your machine and calling Shopsmith, then requesting to visit with Jan who may assist you more efficiently. Further some folks follow direction better than others. I am unable to make further comment on that point as I am often one who fails miserably in that area. When installing my first set I managed to view the instructions long and completely enough to realize they should have been marked better. Thus I did the install at the same time I upgraded to the Mark 7 and had the machine upside down for both installs.
Second The cam question is answered for me each time I press the pedal. Each of the positions is easy to achieve with the current system. If one attempts to elevate in one motion I cannot see it working without a great deal more effort. In my first shop the first position was sufficient for easy movement. With the new shop I must raise to the highest position due to the seams in the floor. The wide wheels make it possible to move the tools without being hung up on those seams. The larger diameter also contributes to ease of movement. Yeah I know some of you aren't buying that part. For me it works and I like that.
Finally some of you folks are stronger and bigger then I am thus more capable of man handling your tools. Great and more power too you. I also thank God we are all allowed to maintain our own opinions. Oh yes my second two sets of wheels arrived last week.

WARNING, The new instructions are greatly improved, include pictures and are even simple enough for this old dummy in Denver to follow. I have no idea who facilitated the improved instructions but my hat is off to that person or persons. Will I post them here? No way they are copyrighted. Jim