Shopsmith Forums

Ed in Tampa wrote:I mentioned the wet gas as I think it proves there is plenty of gas, also the starting fluid did not help. The Carb is one of those new ones that has a electric solenoid on the bottom fuel bowl. I'm told it is for EPA air standards and adjusts the main jets.

The engine is a 15 hours Briggs and Straton overhead valve single cylinder.

If the engine is has started once in the last few days it will start instantly. If the engines has sat a week it will require constant cranking until it starts. Hot it starts and in cooler weather it starts.

Call EPA and ask them why small engines are difficult/unpredictable to start now days!:mad:

JPG40504 wrote:Call EPA and ask them why small engines are difficult/unpredictable to start now days!:mad:

I would but this machine has been a 1/2 crank and start machine since I bought it. It is just this last year that it wants to be cranked and cranked before it starts. Once it starts if you shut if off right away it becomes a 1/2 crank and start machine again even if you let it set for a 8 hours or more.

I was sure it was fuel problem until I shot it with starter fluid and found the exhaust so wet. Both of which tells me it is getting gas. I know it has spark, although it may be weak is will draw a spark across the gap in the plug. So the only thing left is compression and I don't see how that changes with cranking or outside temp being 10-15 degrees difference between instant start and crank forever start.

I may have overthought this but this is where I'm at.

Brick1, be careful with the Marvel Mystery Oil. They claim their product helps to lubricate the upper cylinders, however MMO does have ethanol in it. In facti have read that independent testing has proved that it will reduce upper cylinder lubrication in diesel applications. Maybe it helps in gas applications better, I doen't know. There has been a lot of discussion on this subject on some of the other forums that I visit concerning diesels. Especially now that we are mandated to use low sulfer fuels for all onroad vehicles.

I'm not sure some ethanol is bad in certain applications, however being mandated to use fules with higher concentrations just doesn't seem viable. At least not as a long term solution. Yes, we need clean breathable air. However, ethanol has proven to be just as polluting as gas. It just produces a different form of green house gas (I don't remember the exact chemical makeup). So, in reality it is just a trade off from one type of pollution to the next. Second, it is a less efficient form of fuel (it takes more than a gallon of ethanol to do the work of a gallon of gas). Plus, ethanol is an agressive solvent. Rubber fuel lines, gaskets, diaphrams and primbing bulbs in two cycle engins may all be at risk.

They had a discussion the other day on the radio about this very subject and alternative fuels. A big part of the discussion moved towards the Natural Gas Debate. With all these excess reserves we seem to have, why are we not moving towards CNG fueled vehicles. Especially in our more populated areas. But, the big oil giants are pushing towards more exportation of these fuels to increase profits here and abroad. Not that I'm a big fan of the whole Fracking issue (I will leave that to another discussion for now). But, in reality is about making the best use and making wise decisions about how we efficiently use our resources for the common good of all concerned. And, not just what looks good on the political or economical side.

My dad runs his older diesel truck on fuel he makes from used cooking oil. It does have side effects other than smelling like french fries. It's a little harder to start in cold weather for one thing. He recently started using Marvel Mystery Oil and he says it runs better than it ever has. Starts very easy and has that diesel "clatter" once again.

heathicus wrote:My dad runs his older diesel truck on fuel he makes from used cooking oil. It does have side effects other than smelling like french fries. It's a little harder to start in cold weather for one thing. He recently started using Marvel Mystery Oil and he says it runs better than it ever has. Starts very easy and has that diesel "clatter" once again.

Ethanol ping?

dforeman wrote:Brick1, be careful with the Marvel Mystery Oil. They claim their product helps to lubricate the upper cylinders, however MMO does have ethanol in it. In facti have read that independent testing has proved that it will reduce upper cylinder lubrication in diesel applications. Maybe it helps in gas applications better, I doen't know. There has been a lot of discussion on this subject on some of the other forums that I visit concerning diesels. Especially now that we are mandated to use low sulfer fuels for all onroad vehicles.

I'm not sure some ethanol is bad in certain applications, however being mandated to use fules with higher concentrations just doesn't seem viable. At least not as a long term solution. Yes, we need clean breathable air. However, ethanol has proven to be just as polluting as gas. It just produces a different form of green house gas (I don't remember the exact chemical makeup). So, in reality it is just a trade off from one type of pollution to the next. Second, it is a less efficient form of fuel (it takes more than a gallon of ethanol to do the work of a gallon of gas). Plus, ethanol is an agressive solvent. Rubber fuel lines, gaskets, diaphrams and primbing bulbs in two cycle engins may all be at risk.

They had a discussion the other day on the radio about this very subject and alternative fuels. A big part of the discussion moved towards the Natural Gas Debate. With all these excess reserves we seem to have, why are we not moving towards CNG fueled vehicles. Especially in our more populated areas. But, the big oil giants are pushing towards more exportation of these fuels to increase profits here and abroad. Not that I'm a big fan of the whole Fracking issue (I will leave that to another discussion for now). But, in reality is about making the best use and making wise decisions about how we efficiently use our resources for the common good of all concerned. And, not just what looks good on the political or economical side.

I never knew Marvel Mystery Oil had ethanol in it. How did you find this out? I use it as a lube for various things and the only thing I knew about it is it migrates every where. One drop in a gear case will lube every gear given enough time for the oil to migrate.

After some quick Googling just now, I can find nothing saying that MMO contains Ethenol. I find tons of sites and forums saying it's a great way to combat the negative effects of Ethenol. MMO re-lubricates what Ethenol dries out.

One more ethanol note. It is my understanding that when you get up to higher levels (like maybe E-85) that you can become at risk of serious burns from what is referred to as "invisible flames" from the alcohol fumes.
You can Google that one.


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It was in that independent testing report (I believe). I'll have to look and see if I can find it again. MMO does not give out their formula (I know I've looked). But, a lot of old timer mechanics mention their use of MMO to dry up excess moisture in crank cases and fuel tanks. So, it is somewhat believed that MMO contains an ethanol/alcohol mixture (which binds to water molecules). That is why they tell you not to store gas with ethanol in it for any length of time. Over time it will absorb the ambiant moisture out of the surrounding air.

It was a very long article but the short of it was they were testing different additives using metal against metal testing and measuring the scaring of the metal when finished. They found MMO used in diesel fuel actually caused an increased amount of scaring then using no additives at all. I used to use MMO in my diesels as well when they converted us over to Sulfur Free Fuel. I found it actually quieted the diesel down some. But when I read this report, I switched to using 2 cycle oil which tested fairly well with the same result.

Here is the MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheet) for Marvel Mystery Oil. There are three ingredients, none of which are ethanol/alcohol:
COMPONENT CAS NUMBER CONCENTRATION (wt %)
Naphthenic Hydrocarbons 64742-52-5 70 – 80
Mineral Spirits 08052-41-3 20 – 30
Chlorinated Hydrocarbons 00095-50-1 0 – 1

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