Why WW pubs look down on SS?

[terrydowning]

I believe Ed is correct on this one gentlemen.

If I could afford NEW SS equipment at MSRP AND space was NOT an issue. I would purchase medium to high end stand alone machines with greater capacity and capability and save money.

I do love my SS but facts are facts. It is a multi-tool and as such is designed with certain compromises. Fortunately for me those compromises are not show stoppers and they either affect operations I don't typically perform or I have work arounds. We often hear complaints on this forum regarding the too tall table saw and the too low lathe. Not to mention that too fast low speed and the too slow high speed. That being said, the SS is a well designed machine and there are options and alternatives that still allow the SS to perform admirably. I also agree with the sentiment of "it is a poor craftsman that blames his tools".

Regarding excessive changeover time (the amount of time required to change from one tool configuration to another), most people that complain of this either have no experience with a SS or plan their work incorrectly.

Regarding Setup time (The amount of time it takes to adjust any machine for an operation). There is no real difference. In fact SS may be slightly ahead on this especially for operations on angled surfaces.

for example:
Setup in TS mode make a compound miter cut.
Remove the saw blade and replace with the sander (without changing table or miter angles) other than adjusting table height you're already setup for sanding the end grain with precision. You can not do that with stand alone tools.

[wa2crk]

Did Ya ever turn a pen on a Unisaw??:D
Bill V

[joshh]

I can hear you guys gathering and getting the rope so if I going to get lynched let me ask a question.

If you had the money of the cost of the new Shopsmith Mark VII, plus a SS bandsaw, plus a SS jointer, plus a SS planner and were not limited in your shop space.

Would you buy standalone or the Shopsmith. Be truthful now, I know most of you bought you SS at well below manufacture list prices. I'm saying you have the money and you must spend it on woodworking

I think if you are really honest most of you will say I would buy the standalone. And I say there you have your answer was to why more Wood Working mags don't do SS articles.

Perhaps it's because I'm not really a woodworker, but I would buy the shopsmith. I see my fathers 20 x 24 shop crammed full with "top of the line" stand-alone tools. All of the tools were made in America, and yet NONE of them are STILL made in America. I don't believe the outsourcing was necessary to stay in business. The slave labor overseas allowed insane margins that allowed CEO's to make terrible decisions and stay in business. I'd rather support a company like Shop Smith, who stayed true to what a company should be. Same reason I will never shop at Walmart.

[JPG]

It is impossible to tell what I would acquire if just starting out, since I am already contaminated. I know what a SS is capable of!

That said, I would like to have unlimited space and tools(and $), but I do not.

If I did today I would have at least one ss(m7) since I appreciate its capabilities. What else of a stand alone genre I do not know, but believe there would be 'some'. And likely more than one SS!:rolleyes:

[swampgator]

I can hear you guys gathering and getting the rope so if I going to get lynched let me ask a question.

If you had the money of the cost of the new Shopsmith Mark VII, plus a SS bandsaw, plus a SS jointer, plus a SS planner and were not limited in your shop space.

Would you buy standalone or the Shopsmith. Be truthful now, I know most of you bought you SS at well below manufacture list prices. I'm saying you have the money and you must spend it on woodworking

I think if you are really honest most of you will say I would buy the standalone. And I say there you have your answer was to why more Wood Working mags don't do SS articles.

If I had the funds, I would buy a brand new SS with the 520 table system, and power pro rather than all the other tools. I have no problem with set up but I need the space, don't have the electrical circuits to support all that other stuff or room. One machine that will conform to my needs is what I want. Haven't changed my mind in 35 years.

[greitz]

So we're stipulating $7000 or so in funds, and unlimited shop space. Given those conditions, Ed has a good point.

I think there are a few factors which would strongly sway me toward Shopsmith, though:
1. I have confidence that I will still be able to get repair parts for a Shopsmith (either from Shopsmith directly or through the used market) a few decades from now. I don't have the same confidence with other manufacturers.
2. I can try new techniques with a Shopsmith that I might not try otherwise. For example, I doubt I would ever have tried woodturning except for the fact that the Shopsmith already came with the necessary equipment. (And the lathe class from the Shopsmith Traveling Academy. I'm with Dusty- these are sorely missed!)
3. I am not aware of other manufacturers who provide the same level of expertise in use and repair of the equipment which is available from this forum, the Sawdust Sessions, and by Shopsmith customer service personnel.

Gary

[Ed in Tampa]

Everyone mentions setup time is not problem.

Baloney.

You are making something with 17 parts all ripped to certain size, then drilled, then a mortise is cut in then sanded. You oops the last piece which means you have to tear down everything. Go back and cut another piece, then reset up the drill and drill a hole, then install the mortizing setup and cut the mortise then sand the piece just to get back to where you were when you oops the piece.

If these all were individual machines you could have left each setup and simply move on. And if you had there would be not setup at all.

If you have never ran into that scenario then you haven't done any serious wood working or you are awfully good and don't oops things.

That all said. I do love my Shopsmith and it has served me faithfully for 30 years. If fits perfectly in my shop/garage and I'm able to park the car inside every night.

With it many 24 years ago I built a cradle that my oldest granddaughter slept in. Tonight my great grand son born to that granddaughter will sleep in it. As has all 7 other grandchildren.

By the way he was 9lbs 3 ozs and came out carrying a football.

[BuckeyeDennis]

Everyone mentions setup time is not problem.

Baloney.

You are making something with 17 parts all ripped to certain size, then drilled, then a mortise is cut in then sanded. You oops the last piece which means you have to tear down everything. Go back and cut another piece, then reset up the drill and drill a hole, then install the mortizing setup and cut the mortise then sand the piece just to get back to where you were when you oops the piece.

If these all were individual machines you could have left each setup and simply move on. And if you had there would be not setup at all.

If you have never ran into that scenario then you haven't done any serious wood working or you are awfully good and don't oops things.

That all said. I do love my Shopsmith and it has served me faithfully for 30 years. If fits perfectly in my shop/garage and I'm able to park the car inside every night.

With it many 24 years ago I built a cradle that my oldest granddaughter slept in. Tonight my great grand son born to that granddaughter will sleep in it. As has all 7 other grandchildren.

By the way he was 9lbs 3 ozs and came out carrying a football.

Ed, you must be in serious need of a hickory-fed squirrel fix. You are very clearly and intentionally cruising for controversy!

I fall in the middle here somewhere. I have a reasonable amount of space, but not a ton. I have a reasonable, but limited, amount of disposable income for toys. I spent a reasonable amount of money on a used 520, and have most all of the SPT's now, pretty darned cheap. I have also spent a reasonable amount of money with SS on replacement parts and for stuff that fetches an unreasonable price on eBay. Notice a pattern here?

For me, and I am a reasonably successful design engineer and entrepreneur, the deciding factor was the cleverness of the design. Very, very few engineers could conceive of, not to mention execute, a system that addresses so many tasks with such elegance. Of COURSE, special-purpose equipment will ALWAYS edge out general-purpose equipment when it comes to absolute performance. Who cares? When it comes to woodworking, I'm a hobbiest. I like the flexibility the SS gives me to experiment, and perhaps even do something clever.

And congrats on the great-grandson! A darned good excuse for gettin' feisty. Send the boy on up to Ohio State in a few years - we can always use some more good football players. Hey, we already got Florida's best coach!

[letterk]

WW pubs don't "look down" on SS as much as just ignore it. The reasons are probably financial, as everyone else has surmised.
Remember when Norm used a SS? Then, sponsorship of other brands forced a change.
Product placement works. Gibbs should use his more often.

Here's an article on Norm from 2005 that I just finished reading. I realize it says porter cable, but it is only a PDF of a Fine Woodworking article.

http://www.portercable.com/uploads/PCD/ ... DSHOPS.pdf

PBS requires all logos to be covered up. I have heard that Norm didn't like the Shopsmith, but I heard it on here. he claimed in the article to use only tools he liked. He must not have minded the chisels because the show on the NYW website last week he was using a Shopsmith chisel to make a pedestal table.

[kalynzoo]

I purchased my SS after seeing it being demonstrated at at least 3 Fairs, possibly more. Finally, after standing and watching another demonstration at the LA County Fair my wife said; why don't you just buy it. That acknoledgement not only meant I had permission, it meant that we finally had the means. It was a nice moment. Advertizing monthly with a full spread color ad would not have caught my attention or encouraged a purchase. It was the on site, close up and personal demonstration that motivated my purchase. I can honestly say I have no regrets. I personally feel that SS has errored in ending the traveling demos. But that's my feeling and the direction of the company is not in my domain, thank goodness.
I'll just enjoy what I have.