Shopsmith Forums

algale wrote:Deuteronomy 22:8

King James Version (KJV)

8 When thou buildest a new house, then thou shalt make a battlement for thy roof, that thou bring not blood upon thine house, if any man fall from thence.

Nanny God.

Sounds like the OSHAV.

So what are the 'crenels' for?:D


Seems like a translation 'issue'.

[quote="JPG40504"]Sounds like the OSHAV.]

It does rather sound like OSHA, doesn't it?

As to parapets and crenels and translation errors, some of the more modern translations appear to just say "railing."

algale wrote:Deuteronomy 22:8

King James Version (KJV)

8 When thou buildest a new house, then thou shalt make a battlement for thy roof, that thou bring not blood upon thine house, if any man fall from thence.

Nanny God.

So in addition to being incredibly stupid, then is this also a sin?

[ATTACH]24251[/ATTACH]

Any sane jury should award nothing more than a big belly laugh for this one!

If your RAS climbs while ripping you are feeding the board into the wrong side of the blade.

I do understand the problem with the slop at the post... I had one that if I got the post adjustment too tight it wouldn't raise or lower but if it had "any" play it would move too much out at the end of the crosscut.
There is a reason that the 90 degree kerf mark in the table ends up getting to be about 3/8" wide over time. I learned to keep the post well lubed (I should have been using JPW) and keep the gib tight. Then it was important to always lower the head below where I wanted it then raise it up in position. That took care of any possible up and down differences. I have looked at a lot of new ones in stores and never saw one that wouldn't flex a lot if you pulled the saw head out to the end of the cut and tried to move it side to side... The head to top rail is easy to get snug enough but the post clamp is the weak spot. Still they are accurate enough for government work.
It is critical especially when ripping (just like on a table saw) that the head assembly is adjusted so that the blade is absolutely parallel to the fence...
Like many tools they are only as accurate as the operator. Much like a Shopsmith, some guys love them, some guys hate them. I fall somewhere in the middle. My undies just get in a bunch when they are attacked as too dangerous to use at all...

They are a great carpentry tool but are now mostly replaced by the compound and sliding compound miter saws which are much lighter to cart to the job site.
I mentioned the one I had that I had built an 8' table on each side. That gave me about 19' of total table length. It was OK, I had a long skinny shop then. I could lay a 24' long 2"x6" on that table and saw it in half in the middle and the 2 halves would just lay there with no extra supports. As I said before it was great for ripping big stuff.
Carpenters liked them for making the birdsmouth cut (and similar cuts) on the bottom of rafters. You could cut about 8 or 10 at one time.

I keep talking about managing risk... I expect to be getting in a lot of roof time as soon as the weather breaks. I would rather spend a day ripping with a RAS. I don't really mind climbing until I get on about the third step of the ladder. Still it needs doing and as I look around I seem to be the only one here to do it. It can be pretty dangerous, especially on 3 of the old barns with steep metal roofs. They are about a 45 degree roof and the lower edges tend to be up about 20'. It's just a matter of managing risk. I have harness and ultra high strength mountain climbing rope for a safety rope and various ladder jacks and roof jacks etc.

That project will be worked into the job mix with felling, loading and hauling timber to cut with my sawmill so I can build 8 more horse stalls.
I also have an ancient small unused one and a half story house that has to come down this year.
I sold a small parcel of land to one of my daughters and now I need to build a small bridge across the creek since I don't have one any more.
I also have about 8 old trees I need to remove a number of good sized dead limbs from. They seem to be a bit up in the air too.
And my 6 horses all are past due for a hoof trim. Now that gets scary at times.

Still, it is all just risk to be managed...

I don't know what the guys that are scared of their shadows will be doing this spring but I am going to be busy.


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BuckeyeDennis wrote:So in addition to being incredibly stupid, then is this also a sin?

[ATTACH]24251[/ATTACH]

Any sane jury should award nothing more than a big belly laugh for this one!

That is called improvising.(aka problem solving)

Some times risk must be taken to accomplish the apparent impossible.

Who took the pix?

Wonder what the 'raising' sequence was(it could make a difference balance wise)



Lest y'all think I think this is 'ok', I agree this is a stupid thing to do.

Gotta admire the 'pluck' though!

algale wrote:It does rather sound like OSHA, doesn't it?

As to parapets and crenels and translation errors, some of the more modern translations appear to just say "railing."

And so was the 'original' meaning resumed, or further deviated?;)

Regardless of the word for the roof 'attachment' the message is quite clear.

JPG40504 wrote:And so was the 'original' meaning resumed, or further deviated?]the message is quite clear[/color].

And so what most folks thing is a modern concept, that you have an obligation to take safety precautions to protect people from something as obviously dangerous as falling off a roof they are working on, turns out to have ancient roots.

Can't you just hear those ancient builders carping: "That RoofStop Railing system will just give me a false sense of security and encourage me to be careless when I'm up there."

algale wrote:Can't you just hear those ancient builders carping: "That RoofStop Railing system will just give me a false sense of security and encourage me to be careless when I'm up there."

And it cost half a herd of goats to replace it when it trips...


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robinson46176 wrote:And it cost half a herd of goats to replace it when it trips...


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Thank God we can laugh at ourselves!

JPG40504 wrote:That is called improvising.(aka problem solving)

Some times risk must be taken to accomplish the apparent impossible.

Who took the pix?

Wonder what the 'raising' sequence was(it could make a difference balance wise)



Lest y'all think I think this is 'ok', I agree this is a stupid thing to do.

Gotta admire the 'pluck' though!

I have seen a lot worse.

I would do that job... but it might take me 3 hours or more and I would do a number of things differently.
I looked it over and it really isn't as bad as it looks. Depending on the original load both fork lifts should be well within their safe weight load limits. The upper one appears to be sitting solidly on the lower ones forks.
The first thing I would do differently is all of those extra people would be gone especially the one standing on the back of the upper one. "ANY" observers would be told to stay well back and completely quiet or leave the area (too many cooks etc.) and I would tell them that even if they owned the company.
Next I would have the upper fork lift VERY securely chained down to and back to the lower fork lift with heavy grade 70 chain and tightened with ratchet booms. If needed heavy planks could be between the upper fork lift and the rack of the lower one.
There would be one man for guidance up on the platform and one such person below but in a clear location.
No one would be trying to lift or shift the load while it was being moved. A second operator could use a ladder to access the controls of the upper one (while sitting under the roll cage) then climb down and move off to a safe spot. If need be he could climb that ladder a dozen times or more but always moving away before anything was moved farther.
Yeah, I would probably do that with two good operators and a written pre-agreement that I had 100% control of the whole area.
I'm sure I have done worse. You should have seen some of the things I used to do to get a backhoe on the other side of a bridge guardrail.


What was stupid was a fork lift operator I knew at the only factory job I had who got annoyed by the safety roll bar/cage system and removed it. He was killed when a 3,000 pound roll of paper fell back on him and pretty much squashed him. That was stupid and pointless. His actions gained him nothing. It was not really in his way at all, he was just refusing to use it because they told him he had to. Still his widow got a settlement because they said that the company should have checked on him and made him re-install the safety cage.


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