Shopsmith Forums

Nothing argumentative about a peaceful debate Ed, be it Shopsmith or anything else.

I keep forgetting that this is a Shopsmith forum first and a woodworking forum...whenever.

Dusty presented a problem with accuracy in his cutting and assembling of drawers. Several discussed his issue strictly from a Shopsmith point of view. I chose to, shudder the thought, suggest a non-Shopsmith alternative. And, you might want to cover your ears for this next comment, sometimes there are actually non SS solutions, solutions that make us better woodworkers. Solutions that don't involve sending all your money to Dayton Ohio.

So, if this is a forum concerned only with the glorification of all things Shopsmith and not the actual growth of the members as woodworkers who want to expand their knowledge and personal skills outside the realm of Shopsmith, then I respectfully bow out..

Peace.

jg300da wrote:Nothing argumentative about a peaceful debate Ed, be it Shopsmith or anything else.

I keep forgetting that this is a Shopsmith forum first and a woodworking forum...whenever.

Dusty presented a problem with accuracy in his cutting and assembling of drawers. Several discussed his issue strictly from a Shopsmith point of view. I chose to, shudder the thought, suggest a non-Shopsmith alternative. And, you might want to cover your ears for this next comment, sometimes there are actually non SS solutions, solutions that make us better woodworkers. Solutions that don't involve sending all your money to Dayton Ohio.

So, if this is a forum concerned only with the glorification of all things Shopsmith and not the actual growth of the members as woodworkers who want to expand their knowledge and personal skills outside the realm of Shopsmith, then I respectfully bow out..

Peace.

I don't think you have to bow out and I don't think you simply suggestted a better way. You actually inferred the problem might be do to inaccuracies produced by the Shopsmith design and the inference that "real" craftsmen don't use Shopsmiths. Probably not a great thing to do on the Shopsmith forum.

I do believe if you had simply offered another solution without taking the shots at Shopsmith we would probably be discussing you idea instead of what you said.

Your absolutely right there are many many ways to skin a cat. And perhaps your way is the best. But don't come to a Shopsmith forum fault the machine and expect everyone to praise your idea.

I think we can discuss woodworking, learn better techniques, expand our knowledge and skills without tearing down Shopsmith in the process. Is the Shopsmith the best way to do all things? Absolutely not, but why mention it's shortcomings if your intent was to teach a better way? Just tells us the better way without the shot at SS.
Ed

Wait a minute guys.

This problem I have is hardly the fault of the machine on which I cut the parts. The fact is, I could post this problem on any forum without regard to equipment manufacturer. The solution should be the same.

As it turns out, the major cause of my problem I believe to be the result of inconsistent depth on some of my rabbets. All were cut on the same setup but they are not all the same depth. Some deviate enough that I don't need to measure - it is visible to the naked eye (now that I can see better).

I believe the root cause was my failure to keep the stock flat on the table; I can see some slight twists in the pieces. I assume the feather boards were not secure enough when I made the original cuts.

I have rerun all of my dado and rabbet cuts and they now seem more consistent. The final assembly has been completed. Tomorrow, when they have all finished curing, I'll know for sure.

I did a shameful thing though. :eek:I tacked all of the corner joints with small brads. I don't own enough clamps to keep all those clamped until they setup. I know that isn't very professional but Norm does it all the time and Norm has all the clamps he could ever use at one time.

He does have a lot of clamps, I'll give him that much...too bad he only has one shirt.

jg300da wrote:He does have a lot of clamps, I'll give him that much...too bad he only has one shirt.

That is a Trademark not a shirt!:)

I am unsure I should be posting regarding Dusty's drawer discussion. Oddly enough as I have followed this discussion I have been making a drawer of my own. No, it is not perfectly square. Very close but not perfect. I have made numerous boxes with box joints, most of which were either square or extreemly close to it. This time I have redesigned a cabinet posted here several weeks ago. One that was designed with a base containing a wooden drawer and holding several of the Stanley parts storage containers. I continue modifying mine to include a larger foot print. More storage bins and with a little luck on one end a rack to hold sanding disks and saw blades. The other end will house those pesky vaccum and dust collector tubes and connections that I usually find myself kicking all over the floor. Add to that a bookshelf on top to hold my sandpaper box and shop manuals. Back to the drawer. I am using scrap materials for my monster box, as I wish to move them in the form of a useable storage device as opposed to a pile of scrap wood. Thus I tried cutting my box joints in plywood. I finally got the job done. sloppy and a bit of delamination/breakage on the fingers of joints. Those joints are are ugly enought that when I post a picture of the finished project I may have to screw the drawer closed so no one can see how sloppy my work really is. One the other side of this coin I continue to learn just how powerful my shopsmith truly is. I also learn new methods of accomplishing the projects related to my beloved hobby. I am using the jigs that Nick taught me to make. I loved the expression on my wife's face when I cut several shelves using my sliding table with the stop set at the perfect measurment and not one pencil line on that sheet of plywood. Every step of the way I am discovering new talents I never dreamed of in the past.

This is one ole guy that is thankful for all of the shopsmith tools and gadgets I have invested in. I am even more thankful for the teachings of Nick and Drew in the Sawdust Sessions. The discussions amongst those taking part in those Saturday morning Jewels are also treasured gifts.

Oh yes before I place the soap box back in the corner of the closet. Dusty and numerous others here have provided much relaxation and fine advise for which I am also greateful. Fjimp:)

In 92', I bought the Mark 510. One of the first projects using the SS, was Pendulum Cradle for my niece. At work, when they moved pattern storage, I was allowed to remove any the wood I wanted. I picked up a lot of old pine and fir planks. These were scarred from sliding pattern tooling on and off these shelves. These boards were over 50 yrs. old and very wide. I used the SS to rip the boards to narrow pieces, jointed the edges, and glued these up into wider panels.

But, I didn't have a planer, so I used jointer hand plane to flatten and remove all the gouges. Were all my boards the same thickness when I got done? Probably not. But, hand planing all those pieces was very relaxing and self satisfying. And the finished product, tho not perfect, looked really nice and my niece loved it.

But, having said all that, if I would have had a power jointer, then that is what I would have used.

dusty wrote:...If I am building what amounts to a box (actually it is the first in a set of drawers), the opposing sides are equal and one of the corners is perfectly square - should I not expect the drawer to be square?

What am I doing wrong, if all of the above is true but when I finish gluing and clamping the box is not perfectly square?

Hi again, Dusty! Now that we've had the discussion on tools (I hope) Let's try to get back to your drawer, or hypothetical box. In my first posting of this thread, I delved into a little bit of wood selection and treatment - Now it's time for drawer building. This is a short story about how "non-square drawers" work nicely.

I have a set of drawers (5 drawers) with a cabinet on top that reaches about 7 feet high. I've never posted pictures of it because it was made to fit in our master bathroom, between the tub and the sink cabinets. Can't seem to get a good photo of it as my camera and I can't get back far enough to view the whole thing. There was a finishing color issue, similar to the one Ed in Tampa had, but that's a different story.

The drawers are the subject here. It was both amazing and a pleasure when the drawers all fit wonderfully. The method I used was from a magazine, Fine Woodworking, I think. The lower carcase was made from birch faced plywood. This in itself, is a box and it had to be square. I cut dados for the 4 shelf dividers and checked to see that the two sides and their dados matched perfectly. Also the top and the bottom of the carcase (box) fit into rabbets. I set the sides on their backs (on the floor) glued the dados and fit in the top, bottom and shelves. I used the plastic "Clamp Its" on both sides and top. I used brads, from a nail gun to secure the top and bottom, clamped the sides together at the front in three places, set the box up and clamped the back of the sides the same way. Then laid the box back down on the clamps and checked the diagonals. They were a little off, so grabbed a pipe clamp and pulled together the longest corners. Then let it sit overnight.

O.K. Now I had a perfectly square carcase with 5 rectangular shelves (openings). Now was the job of making the shelves. The first thing to do was to go back to the carcase and apply the fronts to cover the plywood edges. Then the drawer method (which used no glides) from the magazine was to cut the backs slightly shorter than the width of the openings (they were to fit into dados near the rear of the sides) - cut the drawer fronts the same length and height as the opening. The sides were cross cut about a half inch shorter than the sides. Now the trick was to plane/trim the drawer fronts to exactly 1/32" smaller than the openings on all sides. This took a lot of time! I drilled the holes for the pulls and made many fittings before this was just right. I used plastic faux credit cards to get the fit.

Then to assemble the drawer parts. The drawers were to, after the joinery, to be slightly narrower than the openings at the rear of the drawer and the sides were to be slightly wider than the openings at the drawer front. This worked pretty good and, at first, the drawers slid into the openings about half way. Now the job was to trim the front half of the sides so that the fit was smooth. I used a scraper and sand paper for this. It all worked well and I am very happy with the functioning of all of them. If I were ever to build another case with multiple drawers, I think I would use this system again.

The joints at the front of the drawers were interlocking or double dados. The back of the drawer was put into dados in the sides. The bottom fits into grooves in the front and sides, and attached to the bottom of the drawer back.

Found a photo - sorry - had to turn it sideways.

Dusty
One thing I found when making drawers was to cut the bottoms that slide into the dadoes in the sides a little under size. This allows the the whole drawer to rack slightly which eliminates any binds that may occur in the whole process. I don't glue the bottom at all and only insert it after the front sides and back are assembled. I slide the bottom into the drawer under the bottom. I then usually set the drawer down upside down on my work bench measure diagonals and drive one small nail through the bottom into the back to hold the whole thing square. Now for this to work the whole thing has got to be fairly square to start with but it does correct those tiny little mistakes where things are just a hair out of perfect.

If I have a drawer where the bottom is also slotted to hold the bottom. I usually use a false front. Then I do the same thing but I drive the tack in front which will be covered with the real front and into the bottom to hold it all straight. Either way a perfectly square bottom will straighten most drawers that are slightly out of square, but the bottom must be undersize enough to be able to be fitted into the drawer but big enough to hold the drawer square.
Ed
Ed

One thing our friend Norm likes to do is use the drawer bottom to help square the drawer assembly. He uses glue on the dadoes for the bottom and brads where the bottom meets the bottom of the drawer back. This is ok when a plywood bottom is used but unacceptable when a solid drawer bottom is used due to wood movement from humidity changes. My opinion is that the drawer bottoms should be of solid material and no glue used on the drawer sides, allowing the bottom to float in the dadoes. A slot is then cut at the back end of the drawer where it meets the bottom of the drawer back, and secured with a single brass screw allowing it to move with changes in humidity.