Shopsmith Forums

Festool uses metric measurements as they are from Europe. I use the 5, 8 and 10 mm dominoes. I have a 5 mm router bit but I have used a 3/16 instead. For the other sizes I use a 5/16 for the 8 mm and a 3/8 for the 10 mm. If you look on a fraction, decimal and mm conversion chart, the fractions are just slightly smaller than the mm. Most of the dominoes I have tried work in these size mortises and if any are too tight a quick sanding will fix the issue.

FWIW, Whiteside makes a complete line of Festool-compatible metric upcut spiral bits with Imperial shanks. These will fit your SS router-bit arbors, and are made right here in the good ‘ol USA. In North Carolina, not too far from Tennessee, to be specific. They’re not cheap, in either sense of the word, but are an excellent value IMHO. I own quite a few Whiteside bits, and they all cut beautifully. But right after Christmas, one of them finally failed on me. After I crashed it into a hardened-steel locating pin, that is.

algale wrote: ↑Tue Jan 10, 2023 6:24 pm Hey RFGuy, I don't begrudge you your Festool Domino tool! I'd love to have one --just don't want to pay for one!

That knockdown hardware does indeed look pretty cool! Any reason you can think of why one who didn't own the Festool Domino couldn't buy the knockdown hardware from Festool and then cut the mortises the old fashioned way I describe with an appropriate-sized drill bit?

Alan,

Thanks. I am proud to own a Festool Domino and a few other tools from them, but I am not trying to brag about them here. So, I am cautious what I post sometimes. For me, they are an investment, just like all of my SS equipment, and I cried with every purchase due to the cost. I have a small shop (~200 sq. ft.) and only one Mark V, so when I decided to get on the Festool platform I saw it as more of an ability to offload some of my workload from my Mark V to these high quality hand power tools to minimize changeovers. In other words, for me, my SS and Festool tools are complementary. Being in such a small shop allows me to keep my Mark V dedicated to the main tasks I use it for (TS, jointing, planing, turning). I know others might argue that I could put more than one Mark V in this small space, but it is hard to describe, but the usable space is actually much less than 200 sq. ft. due to unavailable wall space and doors. I have a large Craftsman (pre-bankruptcy) rolling tool cabinet with the bulk of my hand tools and some SS accessories in it, but I also have an 8' Gladiator workbench on one wall that is my electronics workstation. So, wall space is a premium. Anyway, getting off topic here, but my point is that by buying into the Festool system I have increased my capability and efficiency in my shop without adding a ton more stuff into the space or eating up valuable floor space.

Just as Shopsmith is a system and you get synergies by adding more SS tools/accessories because they work well together, Festool is one as well. That is what I was trying to highlight about the Festool Domino. I am no expert on Festool, but the more I get into it, the more I can see the system benefits. So, the Domino connectors are the best KD fittings I have seen anywhere. Just like SOSS hinges, maybe there is an ultra-premium KD fitting out there in another brand that I am not aware of. In my limited knowledge before Festool, I always thought of KD fittings as those cheap ones like you can get at the HW store (or in IKEA furniture) and I have used them once or twice in the past. They work okay, but a desk or table put together with them tends to be rickety in my experience. I have also made my own hardware using brass threaded inserts and bolts, but these can be quite time consuming to layout, install & not strip out. In my opinion, the only thing that comes close to the Festool Domino Connectors in quality is the Lamello Zeta biscuit KD fittings that I have seen from a couple of YT woodworkers that I follow. For sure you could just buy the connectors themselves and install them without a Festool Domino. However, like all KD fittings they require a precise placement, size and depth. Otherwise they either won't fit or tighten enough to be a strong joint. I am sure you could create a jig to do it, but it likely would take a few iterations to get the placement just right, but definitely doable. This is why I spent all of the above space going on and on ( ) about Festool as being a "system". It is just easier and faster to do it "in the system" than outside of it. I have seen some very large furniture pieces done with the Festool Domino Connectors and they appear to be very sturdy. You can even use them in beds and I have seen many online woodworkers do this. IF they can take the stress and loads of a bed then they must be strong IMHO. Of course, the larger ones require a different Domino. I have the Festool Domino df500 which will cut 4mm, 5mm, 6mm, 8mm and 10mm thick mortises, but the Festool Domino df700 can cut 8mm, 10mm, 12mm and 14mm thick mortises. The df700 can also cut the same df500 sizes if you buy a cutter extension from Seneca Woodworking, but the size and heft of the df700 makes it rather impractical for working on smaller projects. Some glamor shots below to show some of the different applications and types of Domino Connectors. I can't wait to get some of these to try out...

P.S. Last pic below shows the mammoth Festool Domino df700. It is a beast of hand power tool!!!

edflorence wrote: ↑Tue Jan 10, 2023 8:43 pm RF Guy;

Thanks for the information about the Festool Dominos. The Domino tool does sound really efficient, and lots faster than M&T joinery. Plus it looks like fun to use.

Sometimes getting things done more quickly is important. I made four drawers for a built in last year and since the drawers were faced with a piece that overlapped the face frame and the joinery was all out of sight, I used the Kreg Pocket Screw tool on them. I hadn't had much experience with this tool before this, and I was impressed with just how quickly the drawers went together. And, it was quite a bit of fun to use. So I understand the appeal of getting the strength of a mortise and tenon in a fraction of the time. For production work in this era of expensive labor costs, those sorts of new methods would be the way to go.

I still enjoy putting the SS through its paces, though, even if some operations take longer. I cut 8 tenons and 8 mortices this morning, using the Tenon Master, the bandsaw and the horizontal boring mode and it took about 3 hours, including sweeping up between each operation and a couple of breaks to put wood on the fire. Time well spent, I think.

Ed,

Thanks. I appreciate it and I am glad you said this. Woodworking should be fun and enjoyable. Sometimes there is drudgery, like sanding ( ), but in the end I think most of us want to have fun in our shops. It should be an enjoyable experience. The Festool Domino is very fun to use or at least it is for me. I was very skeptical on it prior to purchase and thought those online guys must be crazy to spend so much on one hand tool. I did my research and watched many YT reviews showing it being put through its paces. I don't want to wax too poetic here because I am sure someone will read this, go out and purchase it and then complain that I talked them into it, but I think you get my point here.

Yeah, I am glad that you brought up pocket screws again. I don't know why I have an aversion to them...perhaps it is just my own obstinance. I really should give them a try one day and I know they are a strong joint. You are right, that in many ways they parallel what the Festool Domino offers.

I am glad you enjoy making M&T's with your SS. Do you have a longer handle for leverage on the mortises? Just curious. I have talked a lot about the speed of the Festool Domino, but speed isn't always the most important thing. When we have tools we like and that work well, I think time becomes somewhat irrelevant, e.g. using a beautiful and ultra sharp chisel/hand plane can be a real pleasure. It becomes more about the experience than the actual outcome. Still, I am not quite ready to switch over to all hand tool woodworking, but at some level I can understand and appreciate those who choose to do this. Really glad you are enjoying using your SS for making M&T's. I have been woodworking for well over 3 decades now, but it has been intermittent as work & life often intrude. I didn't get into M&T joinery until a little over halfway through my woodworking journey and I really like them - no matter what method is used to make them.

Years ago I started using floating tenons and making spline joints, it was time consuming because I made the tenons and splines , I switched to biscuits on some projects instead of splines on the projects that were acceptable, gluing up panels and large long corners etc , I have also used connectors similar to those on the last banister I built instead of through tenons and dowels and they seem to be working out fine. I am not sure they would be as strong as a through tenon and peg or maybe other joinery and JMO they dont look as cool , but I can not complain about them because they seem to work . Festool eq is not cheap but any more what is. My thoughts on that investment is , if I can make stronger sexier joinery that shows off the woods character and my skills and all I have invested is a little time thats probably what I would do ,,, but the wife says if I was any tighter I would squeak when I walked and in the end only a few even care about skills its all about the time involved . for me its not that I dont like the tool its all about showing off my skills passed down from the past . Some one once said they worked ground with a team of horses , when the first steam tractor showed up one of the horses looked confused ,, and the other look happy !!

Hobbyman2 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 11, 2023 8:02 am Years ago I started using floating tenons and making spline joints, it was time consuming because I made the tenons and splines , I switched to biscuits on some projects instead of splines on the projects that were acceptable, gluing up panels and large long corners etc , I have also used connectors similar to those on the last banister I built instead of through tenons and dowels and they seem to be working out fine. I am not sure they would be as strong as a through tenon and peg or maybe other joinery and JMO they dont look as cool , but I can not complain about them because they seem to work . Festool eq is not cheap but any more what is. My thoughts on that investment is , if I can make stronger sexier joinery that shows off the woods character and my skills and all I have invested is a little time thats probably what I would do ,,, but the wife says if I was any tighter I would squeak when I walked and in the end only a few even care about skills its all about the time involved . for me its not that I dont like the tool its all about showing off my skills passed down from the past . Some one once said they worked ground with a team of horses , when the first steam tractor showed up one of the horses looked confused ,, and the other look happy !!

Yeah, there definitely is a beauty in woodworking with exposed joinery. That is a drawback to floating tenons, biscuits, etc. because they are all hidden. I love furniture with beautiful exposed dovetail, through or wedged M&T, finger joints, splines, etc., etc. and/or particularly with contrasting wood colors. Most of my woodworking has been functional pieces over the years with a few artsy pieces thrown in here and there. I would definitely like to do more creative pieces in the future. IF I could cut dovetails by hand and with precision, I would certainly do it and show them off! Sadly I don't know that my skills will ever reach that level...

very very sharp tools , good lighting ,practice and patience .

RFGuy wrote: ↑Wed Jan 11, 2023 7:45 am

edflorence wrote: ↑Tue Jan 10, 2023 8:43 pm RF Guy;

Thanks for the information about the Festool Dominos. The Domino tool does sound really efficient, and lots faster than M&T joinery. Plus it looks like fun to use.

Sometimes getting things done more quickly is important. I made four drawers for a built in last year and since the drawers were faced with a piece that overlapped the face frame and the joinery was all out of sight, I used the Kreg Pocket Screw tool on them. I hadn't had much experience with this tool before this, and I was impressed with just how quickly the drawers went together. And, it was quite a bit of fun to use. So I understand the appeal of getting the strength of a mortise and tenon in a fraction of the time. For production work in this era of expensive labor costs, those sorts of new methods would be the way to go.

I still enjoy putting the SS through its paces, though, even if some operations take longer. I cut 8 tenons and 8 mortices this morning, using the Tenon Master, the bandsaw and the horizontal boring mode and it took about 3 hours, including sweeping up between each operation and a couple of breaks to put wood on the fire. Time well spent, I think.

Ed,

Do you have a longer handle for leverage on the mortises? Just curious.

Nope, just the original Mark V 500 handle. If the bit is sharp, it doesn't take a lot of leverage to drill or rout. I do back up the fence with a clamped stop block when drilling or routing in horizontal mode, but if I rout in a number of shallow passes or if I retract the bit frequently when drilling rather than going full depth in one shot, there isn't too much fence movement. So even if I had a longer handle and more leverage available. I would be concerned that the additional force might move the fence too much.

It is interesting to read how you have adopted the Festool system as a way of maximizing your shop space. That makes sense to me. I am working in a pretty similar sized space and I am always looking for ways to do more without having to sacrifice any floor space.

edflorence wrote: ↑Fri Jan 13, 2023 3:26 pm Nope, just the original Mark V 500 handle. If the bit is sharp, it doesn't take a lot of leverage to drill or rout. I do back up the fence with a clamped stop block when drilling or routing in horizontal mode, but if I rout in a number of shallow passes or if I retract the bit frequently when drilling rather than going full depth in one shot, there isn't too much fence movement. So even if I had a longer handle and more leverage available. I would be concerned that the additional force might move the fence too much.

It is interesting to read how you have adopted the Festool system as a way of maximizing your shop space. That makes sense to me. I am working in a pretty similar sized space and I am always looking for ways to do more without having to sacrifice any floor space.

Ed,

Thanks. Maybe my hands are just weak and/or my wrist is wrecked from computer use over so many years. I had sharp bits and chisels when I did M&T work on my Mark V, but then again maybe they weren't as sharp as I thought at the time. Good to hear that it works well for you.

Glad it made sense to someone besides myself. Yeah, that is why I went through such a looong explanation above about my small shop space and how I shifted my focus in my shop to accommodate it. Honestly it took me some time to make that mental shift and realize the benefits of both. I mean I had already spent at least $10k on SS equipment over the years and that isn't counting all of the portable hand tools like sanders, routers, etc. I was really hesitant at first to sink so much money into the Festool system after already going all in on SS. The tracksaw really simplified and made it a joy to break down sheet goods finally. That was a real game changer for me. I had a few portable sanders but they beat the crap out of my hands, i.e. too much vibration transferred to the body. I have the Festool RO 150 and it is a beast, but sanding is a breeze with it now and I have way less hand fatigue than my old sanders. Plus in Rotex mode it is the equivalent to a belt sander when you need to remove a lot of material quickly, but in a RO format. I still want to get another lighter detail sander, maybe Festool, maybe not, sometime. The Festool OF 1400 handheld router is wonderfully designed and a joy to use and if you use it with the tracksaw track it is easy, e.g. to do shelf pins (another system benefit) for bookcases, cabinets, etc. or to make dado grooves. Then there is the Domino that I have already talked about. Lastly, I bought the Festool dust extractor, but I didn't have to get it and could have just used my ShopVac™ instead, though it is a good bit cheaper when purchased together. Anyway, this is what works well for me right now. Essentially I am leveraging my SS investment in the areas that, to me, it works well at and I use Festool equipment for pretty much everything else. What works well for me certainly may not work well for others, but I wanted to share my approach on the off chance that it benefits someone else. I know some forum members are all in on SS and do everything with it, including routing/shaping, cutting plywood, etc. and that is great. Given my small shop space and the work I want to do, I found a complementary approach between the SS and Festool systems so they coexist to benefit me.

Not trying to talk anyone into Festool gear unless they want it. It is VERY expensive, BUT high quality.

Another approach.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bx1Mg2mTMO0