Shopsmith Forums

George,

Pretty slick idea.

Would you go and edit your post to remove the - in front of the http or put a space between the - and the http. Then it will become a live link and we won't have to copy and paste it in our browsers.

I know, picky aren't I.

dicksterp wrote:George,

Pretty slick idea.

Would you go and edit your post to remove the - in front of the http or put a space between the - and the http. Then it will become a live link and we won't have to copy and paste it in our browsers.

I know, picky aren't I.

You mean like this?

http://www.woodmagazine.com/woodworking ... nch-video/

Yep. Thanks, Dusty.

sorry I wandered off the thread, I'll post a new one under Dust Collection:)

All-
Thanks for all of your replies above!

I finally got a little time to think about this a bit more and realized that I hardly ever do angled cuts (tilt table) on large stock. To me, this says that I should keep the Shopsmith table for small angled cuts, all drillpress or horizontal boring, etc., and focus on a large tabletop for 90deg rips, crosscuts and dados. Those are the cuts where I feel unsafe, and where I get insufficient precision. That problem is a lot easier to solve, since it avoids trying to tilt a big honkin' tabletop.

So I drew up some rough plans for a tabletop that will crosscut a 2'x4' sheet of plywood, or a long board, while supporting 34" of it on a crosscut sled, or rip boards up to 2' wide (2 zero-clearance blade slots), using a 36" rip fence positioned by an old Original Incra-Jig that's still bouncing around my shop (they're still available). This table attaches to two Shopsmith extension tables, the original and one extra, with the Shopsmith 500 main table lowered and almost all the way to the right to be "out of harm's way."

What I like about the design is the easy incra positioning of the fence, the 2' of outfeed support past the blade and 1' infeed in front, and especially, the opportunity to make a simple box-in-box dust-collection housing that can attach with a handful of disc magnets to the table underside, and sit on the waytubes. It looks to me like the whole thing should cost me <$250.

What I don't like about the design is:

• The weight of the table. It's designed to use 2 sheets of 1/2" thick plywood, so the bottom one is routed out to only reinforce the top one, where there are miter channels and T-tracks, and where it's needed to avoid sag. The top one is a set of panels glued to the bottom sheet, so that the channels and tracks don't require routing. So, as you'll see on the last page of the pdf, I designed a simple pair of block "hands" on the wall, at a good height to hold the outfeed end of the table, and an eyebolt on the ceiling, so I can pull down on a rope to tilt the table up toward being flush with the wall, and then lower it to the ground. I estimate, that the table, without sled or fence should weigh less than a sheet of 3/4" plywood.

• vertical adjustment of the table requires adjustment of the two extension table heights, so I intend to mark or inset a standard ruler on one of the tubes on each side, for the ~2" of usual max travel between thin and thick stock -- that should make the height adjustment a simple read.

• I'll need a 2nd Shopsmith extension table. But maybe I can cobble up something that's almost as good, for this purpose, since it won't need the rip fence lip etc. It would just need 2 tubes of the right OD + a wooden top. So rather than pay $50 on ebay, maybe I could make something for $10 that works ok for this purpose. Has anybody had good luck making a simple extension table wannabe?

• I'll need to slide the outfeed T-track forward a few inches in the design to make room for a removable door for the Shopsmith blade guard, behind each of the blade slots. Or switch to one of those little plastic splitters or the one that looks like an allen wrench sticking up out of the table.

I've attached a pdf with some views:
1- Shopsmith "before" for reference
2- The custom table
3- The custom table + crosscut sled + rip fence w/Original incra-jig
4- Some construction details: t-slots and miter-channels
5- How to use it for crosscuts and ripping
6- Dust-collection housing
7- The "sky-hook" to put the table on and take it off the Shopsmith

So the question is, "What do you think of this adventure?" Based on what you've built and what you've experienced, are there major safety or operational flaws in the design? Are the benefits worthwhile? Can the concerns be easily overcome? Are there better ways to do all this at comparable cost?

-w4f

First I want to say congratulations on your concept documentation. You've done an excellent job.

I have not studied your drawings enough, yet, but I do have one comment.

You may experience a depth of cut problem. If I read your drawings correctly (and I may not be), it appears that there are set ups where your table is at least 1 1/4" thick. This depth when resting on a Mark V table that is lowered all the way will leave you with a maximum depth of cut of 2 1/4". Enough to cut a 2x but nothing more.

PS: It looks as though you are making use of an Incra Jig for the rip fence. What is the maximum rip width you will be able to get? Maybe I answered my own question by reading the drawings closer. Is you maximum rip capacity 24"?

Another PS: If you find rules that you can apply to the vertical tubes, please let me know. I have been attempting to create a depth of cut gauge, for use on the main table, and have not been successful. What I have used got peeled off as the tube entered into the carriage casting. I did an indelible ink ruler that sorta worked but I wasn't proud enough of it to publish any details and certainly no pictures.

Thanks dusty...good points!

dusty wrote:You may experience a depth of cut problem. If I read your drawings correctly (and I may not be), it appears that there are set ups where your table is at least 1 1/4" thick. This depth when resting on a Mark V table that is lowered all the way will leave you with a maximum depth of cut of 2 1/4". Enough to cut a 2x but nothing more.

I hadn't thought much about blade height, and I wasn't really clear about the Mark V's main table, but it's lowered to well below the drive shaft, and isn't involved with this custom table's design at all. It doesn't have to be removed, but it's safely low and out of the way.

The crosscut sled's 1/2" plywood. The table is 2 layers of 1/2" plywood, with the bottom layer only present in areas where needed. The right miter channel can be close enough to the right blade slot to avoid the top of the headstock hitting that channel's lower layer (it's in the V between the blade and the headstock). The left miter channel is all the way past the left extension table, so it's lower layer won't hit the headstock. It sounds like I'd better be sure to have nothing near the centerline (headstock axis) on the lower layer.

So the custom table itself wherever it can hit the headstock is 1/2" thick. (The table inserts will need to be 1/2" with a 1/4" lip supported by the table's 1/4" lip, or a 1/8" hardboard insert on a 3/8" table lip). My 500 main table appears to be ~1/2" max in the area of the headstock too.

From the highest point on my Mark V headstock up to the blade teeth top is 3.5" so with the crosscut sled, that would give me ~2.25-2.5" blade height, as you estimated. For ripping, the 1/2" thick table is roughly the same as the Shopsmith's main table, so ~2.75-3" blade height.

So it seems like this table won't be much different than the 500 main table on max blade height. And it will have 1/2" less blade height when using a crosscut sled, which also seems typical. Am I missing something obvious here?

dusty wrote: PS: It looks as though you are making use of an Incra Jig for the rip fence. What is the maximum rip width you will be able to get? Maybe I answered my own question by reading the drawings closer. Is you maximum rip capacity 24"?

Yes, 24". The Original Incra-jig gives you 8", so that's why I added the miter channel/slide below it, to extend it's reach. It's nowhere near as convenient as the 2009 Incra-jig, but since I dug it out, the box is now sitting on my workbench begging to be used.

dusty wrote: Another PS: If you find rules that you can apply to the vertical tubes, please let me know. I have been attempting to create a depth of cut gauge, for use on the main table, and have not been successful. What I have used got peeled off as the tube entered into the carriage casting. I did an indelible ink ruler that sorta worked but I wasn't proud enough of it to publish any details and certainly no pictures.

For the vertical tube rulers, I was thinking of using a very thin (~1/32"-1/64") plastic commercial piece of plastic ruler (colored lines on white), like the ruler inserts that Incra sells to go in their "T-track plus". (e.g., Incra PSCA 1600S right to left scale for right extension table front tube, while standing in front of right side extension table looking down at outside while adjusting it with right hand, PSCA 0016R left to right scale for outside of left extension table front tube.) I'm assuming I'd need a 3"x1/2" rectangle of plastic ruler. I was planning to hack/file/dremel/sand away that same thickness of metal off a vertical rectangle of the tube also 3" vertical x 1/2" horizontal, so that the ruler could be countersunk flush with the tube. I assume if it's beneath the tube surface it will accumulate dust and be constantly unreadable, and if it's proud of the surface, it will get sheared off by the Shopsmith casting, as you suggested, so you'd have to fiddle with it to get it just right. The ruler's thin enough to be curved or flat, depending on the recess that's made for it.

-w4f

wood4fun wrote:Thanks dusty...good points!



I hadn't thought much about blade height, and I wasn't really clear about the Mark V's main table, but it's lowered to well below the drive shaft, and isn't involved with this custom table's design at all. It doesn't have to be removed, but it's safely low and out of the way.

The crosscut sled's 1/2" plywood. The table is 2 layers of 1/2" plywood, with the bottom layer only present in areas where needed. The right miter channel can be close enough to the right blade slot to avoid the top of the headstock hitting that channel's lower layer (it's in the V between the blade and the headstock). The left miter channel is all the way past the left extension table, so it's lower layer won't hit the headstock. It sounds like I'd better be sure to have nothing near the centerline (headstock axis) on the lower layer.

So the custom table itself wherever it can hit the headstock is 1/2" thick. (The table inserts will need to be 1/2" with a 1/4" lip supported by the table's 1/4" lip, or a 1/8" hardboard insert on a 3/8" table lip). My 500 main table appears to be ~1/2" max in the area of the headstock too.

From the highest point on my Mark V headstock up to the blade teeth top is 3.5" so with the crosscut sled, that would give me ~2.25-2.5" blade height, as you estimated. For ripping, the 1/2" thick table is roughly the same as the Shopsmith's main table, so ~2.75-3" blade height.

So it seems like this table won't be much different than the 500 main table on max blade height. And it will have 1/2" less blade height when using a crosscut sled, which also seems typical. Am I missing something obvious here?



Yes, 24". The Original Incra-jig gives you 8", so that's why I added the miter channel/slide below it, to extend it's reach. It's nowhere near as convenient as the 2009 Incra-jig, but since I dug it out, the box is now sitting on my workbench begging to be used.



For the vertical tube rulers, I was thinking of using a very thin (~1/32"-1/64") plastic commercial piece of plastic ruler (colored lines on white), like the ruler inserts that Incra sells to go in their "T-track plus". (e.g., Incra PSCA 1600S right to left scale for right extension table front tube, while standing in front of right side extension table looking down at outside while adjusting it with right hand, PSCA 0016R left to right scale for outside of left extension table front tube.) I'm assuming I'd need a 3"x1/2" rectangle of plastic ruler. I was planning to hack/file/dremel/sand away that same thickness of metal off a vertical rectangle of the tube also 3" vertical x 1/2" horizontal, so that the ruler could be countersunk flush with the tube. I assume if it's beneath the tube surface it will accumulate dust and be constantly unreadable, and if it's proud of the surface, it will get sheared off by the Shopsmith casting, as you suggested, so you'd have to fiddle with it to get it just right. The ruler's thin enough to be curved or flat, depending on the recess that's made for it.

-w4f

I had not thought about embedding the rule beneath the surface of the vertical tube. That just might work. I will have to resurrect that project.
I really feel that a depth of cut indicator is needed. This has been my primary show stopper.

I'll spend a bit more time with your drawings. I find the total concept to be very interesting.

Comment 1.) Instead of an eyelet, use two or three pulleys to build a hoist that will reduce the effort of rasing and lowering all that plywood. You'll probably need to hoist it from two points, or else its going to twist and rotate all over.

Comment 2.) It seems like you are going to spend a lot of time squaring your fence and mitre gauge to your blade. But I'm not sure I understand how you are attaching it (see question)

Question 1.) I'm not sure I understand how this is affixed to the shopsmith. Are you going to bolt it to the extensions?

RiotNrrd

Thanks riot_nrrd:

riot_nrrd wrote:Comment 1.) Instead of an eyelet, use two or three pulleys to build a hoist that will reduce the effort of rasing and lowering all that plywood. You'll probably need to hoist it from two points, or else its going to twist and rotate all over.

Yes, pulleys for mechanical advantage sounds better. I'm hoping the two wooden block "hands" will stabilize the table while tilting it up, and then, once it's parallel to the wall, while lowering it, the wall will keep it from twisting much. I was trying to keep the roping simpler than using two hoist points. Is there an easy two-point hoisting roping arrangement?

riot_nrrd wrote:Comment 2.) It seems like you are going to spend a lot of time squaring your fence and mitre gauge to your blade. But I'm not sure I understand how you are attaching it (see question)

I'm planning to attach the miter channel to the table with screws into the lower layer of 1/2" plywood, with the top panels on either side flush with its top...I was planning to leave a slight gap on either side, and make the screw hole in the bottom layer of plywood a slot pointing toward the blade, to allow micro adjustment to get it perfectly square.

The table is to be attached to the two extension tables in 2 ways. The lower layer of the table will have a rectangle the shape of the extension routed out of it, like a picture frame, framing the extension to prevent translation left/right and forward/back, and since both extensions are framed, that will prevent rotation as well, so in plane it's locked up. The picture fram around each extension will have a screw/insert from the outside horizontally, and I was intending to drill a small crater/detent into the side of the extension tables, so the screw could grab the table and prevent it from lifting or tilting in either direction. (Sort of like that bolt/crater that keeps the Shopsmith in drill press mode from toppling over. Not sure how deep the crater will have to be yet.

riot_nrrd wrote:Question 1.) I'm not sure I understand how this is affixed to the shopsmith. Are you going to bolt it to the extensions?

See previous Q/A: The intent is to make things easier than bolting it on, by just using the 2 setscrews (one on each table, outside, center) and probably try to use one that fits the standard Shopsmith allen wrench, so I don't need another tool nearby -- 2 quick loosenings and hoist it up -- 2 quick tightenings and it's firmly in place. That's the theory, but we'll see if that's strong enough to resist weight on the outfeed table (the cannonball collection). Also, we'll have to see whether sandbags down near the wheels are needed to keep it from toppling once there's 2' of outfeed table past the blade.

-w4f