Dissapointed ShopSmith owner

dusty · Post by **dusty** » Sun Apr 04, 2010 1:09 pm

mickyd wrote:I'll be ordering both a Pro Planer and Joiner manual from ShopSmith this week for $9.99 ea. plus shipping. My satisfaction criteria will be......I have to be able to read them. Would I like a new bound manuals, yes. Will I be dissatisfied with a photocopy, no. It's only a manual. Life goes on.

The ProPlaner and Joiner are, in my mind, different than the 10E/R. Shopsmith is the original source for these manuals (planer/joiner) and I would expect nothing less than new manuals.

I do hope that you are not disappointed.

doug45601 · Post by **doug45601** » Mon May 03, 2010 7:17 am

Every manual I've ever ordered from SS was a reproduction copy and very harde to read.

Facts are facts and for the most part SS doesn't put much effort in the quality of their reproduction manuals. Sure there CS is great and the guys and gals you talk with will bend over backwards to correct a problem but they shouldn't have to do that! It's what I call a knee jerk reaction... Like closing the barn door after the horse got out.

8iowa · Post by **8iowa** » Mon May 03, 2010 9:11 am

Doug:

You're being a little overly critical here. Many manufacturers today have manuals that are lacking in quality of presentation and information. I bought a dovetail jig from Rockler with pictures that are almost useless and printed instructions that pretty much leave one to trial and error.

What Shopsmith has, that the others don't, are suplementary materials like PTWFE, free "Hands on" demos, and DVD's by Rick Davis and Nick Engler.

I'm glad you at least gave Shopsmith's customer service good marks. Have you ever called another company's customer service and discovered that "bingo" - you're in India!

mickyd · Post by **mickyd** » Mon May 03, 2010 11:41 am

mickyd wrote:I'll be ordering both a Pro Planer and Joiner manual from ShopSmith this week for $9.99 ea. plus shipping. My satisfaction criteria will be......I have to be able to read them. Would I like a new bound manuals, yes. Will I be dissatisfied with a photocopy, no. It's only a manual. Life goes on.

Pro Planer manual and exploded parts list were both good quality 3 hole punch copies. Very legible and clean.

I opted to get the joiner manual later with my next order.

paulrussell · Post by **paulrussell** » Mon May 03, 2010 12:30 pm

I am with those who are voicing dissatisfaction. The financial condition of the company has nothing to do with the quality of product they should be providing.

Shopsmith did not ask me what my financial condition was when I ordered parts. I did not pay in old photocopied money because I long ago spent the originals.

Yes, my example is over-the-top, but there remains a grain of truth in it.

Shopsmith is a company that has made its name on QUALITY. Shopsmith products are not inexpensive. As some have pointed out, many companies have product manuals available for free download. The fact that Shopsmith manuals disappeared from free sites is clearly because Shopsmith sent letters asking for their removal. Shopsmith has an understandable need to make the most of every possible revenue means, and keeping in mind that they spend considerable resources supporting those who have bought used machines, asking a price for a manual is not unreasonable.

But when a company that has made its name on quality begins to send out substandard products for a premium price, in the long run they are hurting themselves more than the customer. They are negating part of what has made them unique.

I am certain that if SS asked in this forum, or privately to some of the more notable members, they could get pristine copies of manuals scanned and sent to them so as to provide a better product. Why they do not -- and why they don't maintain a presence of any sort in these forums since Nick left, is beyond me.

I'm not anti-Shopsmith. Since purchasing my machine for $200 used a little over a month ago, I have sent Shopsmith several times over that amount in business. FWIW I have been very satisfied with the products I have received. I just hate to see them needlessly shooting themselves in the foot.

JPG · Post by **JPG** » Mon May 03, 2010 1:50 pm

I think most of the 'bad' criticism is over copier produced copies of copies of out of print manuals.

I think Paul has made an excellent suggestion, but I suggest taking it a step further. Rather than 'better copies for their use as a 'master'', we should scan into a pdf file and forward the pdf file to them. Pdf file output to a printer has to be better than a multi-generational copy! I think the capability should be somewhere on Poe Ave.!

This would have to be after a request from them. Probably won't happen!:(

cobra.driver · Post by **cobra.driver** » Sat May 15, 2010 11:11 pm

Well I have to jump in here, I'm big on shop manuals for "X". Anything that I own that is serious equipment in my way of life I own the companies shop manual for. John Deere...got it, Harley....got it, DR Brushmower...got it...you get the picture.

Well my "newly" found 1954 SS has a shop manual coming home to it this week. It's a Dealers Guide/Manual for the SSMV 500, Bandsaw, Planer, Jigsaw, Painting unit and I guess a few more I've forgotten. It's 3 inches thick in a binder with company messages and original from 1954.

So the question comes down to, is this distributable/copyable/give-awayable?

For all the help and education I've received here and will continue to get I am willing to put something together for the ppl's here, BUT I am not willing to get sued nor go to jail for it.

Let me know whats the deal.

CD

swampgator · Post by **swampgator** » Sun May 16, 2010 1:03 am

I'll be happy to help SS with a manual for the Mark 5. I have two of them in excellent condition. I'll happily loan them one from which they can make a master. Invest the time and money to keep customers happy and they'll repeat the business. When SS finish with my copy (original) they can return it and then make copies from the Master copy. When I worked civil service, we had a long form application. We made the masters, then for each job we applied for, we submitted a copy of that master. SS could also do this. When I worked in a drawing room of a company in Cleveland, OH, we made a master. If we wanted copies, we took the master and a blank to the ozalid machine and made as many copies. They were all legible and clear. Yes, we had happy repeat customers which is what is wanted here. To do this kind of service to customers is to shoot oneself in the foot and reload the gun without medical help.

robinson46176 · Post by **robinson46176** » Sun May 16, 2010 4:40 am

Some years ago when I bought a used Gleaner combine (fair chunk of change) I went to the dealer and ordered the manuals for it. They are a couple of inches thick. IIRC I paid a little over $60 for them. When they came they were quite readable but as photocopies many of the pictures were quite dark and almost useless.
It isn't just Shopsmith...
I'm big on having the manuals for almost everything. Most things I can find on-line somewhere. When I recently bought several old tractors for my collection I found "very good" manuals on CD on ebay. While I have not yet needed to if I do have the need I can adjust brightness or size while reading on the computer. I can't do that with paper.
I get annoyed with the current propensity to print manuals in 237 languages all in one book. My wife has started stapling all of the non-English pages together so they are easier to ignore. Of course you cannot do that where the English is on one face and something else is on the back face.

wlhayesmfs · Post by **wlhayesmfs** » Sun May 16, 2010 7:53 am

I'm with you guys on manuals. I like shop manual in great shape. I ususally get more than one copy if I can and then use one in the shop and save one on file in case the work copy gets messed up. I have been buying manuals for SPT's I don't have yet just so when I get them I will have a manual. I have been lucky and most of the machines I have picked up still have the manuals and lessons with them. I have even picked up a machine or two that had manual for SPT that that person no longer had. So I even have a manual for a MKVII in case I find one of them later along the road. I have one for a MK2 with I am not looking for but have a manual LOL. So I know there are good manuals out there to be found or like you say if SS want a PDF copy back it is easy to do and they their product will again be up to SS and our standards. Copy right laws stand in the way so some of this but like the .5 MKV plans I got out the older units might not be covered any longer and we can then PDF them.