Shopsmith Forums

The problem with this idea is that most table saw accidents don't happen because the person unaware feed his finger into the saw blade. Though I'm sure that does happen.

Most accidents happen because the hand was thrown into the blade due to kick back, the person operating the saw slipped or a piece of clothing got tangled or caught.

Take the Sawstop demo with the hot dog, they slowly feed it into the blade and the blade stops before inflicting too much damage. Okay I'm thrilled, but take that same hot dog and slam it into the blade and show me the slight damage and I may be impressed.

The reason the blade drops is because the spring that drives the blade into the aluminum break actually piviots the blade. This accomplishes two things mimimizes the time the blade is in contact with the flesh and slams the blade into the aluminum thus stopping it.

Some one said there is nothing wrong with trying to make a buck and there isn't.

What is wrong is trying to make a buck and finding out you can't, then trying to force people to buy your product they have already rejected as being too expensive.

That is exactly what happened here.

He tried to get saw manufactures to buy this and incorporate it into their saws. They told him it was not fool proof and too expensive.

He then tried to force it on the industry by legal manevering. At the time that went no where.

So then said he would build his own saw. It took far longer than he ever expected, and cost more than he said it would.

End result a saw that was so expensive no one would buy it.

So what did he then do found a case, which he was able to win in an attempt to scare the saw manufactures into buying his product.

That didn't work so now he is trying to get the Government to mandate it.

In other words this guy has tried everything to make his buck and it hasn't worked so now instead of saying it was a good idea, he is trying to convince the Government into forcing you to pay for it.

That is just wrong.

I wish we could have this discussion in a group forum, face to face.

I don't like being forced to do anything. I especially do not like the idea of being forced to buy something (in this case the SawStop technology) that I don't believe I NEED.

However, Gass has built and is selling the SawStop with all of his technology incorporated. You indicate that he has failed to do this (successfully)because his saw is too expense. That is inconsistent with what I believe I have witnessed. There are many people on various forums who report that they have the SawStop and like it.

Ed in Tampa wrote:Take the Sawstop demo with the hot dog, they slowly feed it into the blade and the blade stops before inflicting too much damage. Okay I'm thrilled, but take that same hot dog and slam it into the blade and show me the slight damage and I may be impressed.

Funny you should say that Ed. The local woodcraft had a sawstop demo, the guy doing the demo asked how we wanted to see it done. I told him feed it as FAST as ya can and he did. The hot dog only had a cut maybe as deep as the skin.

dusty wrote:I wish we could have this discussion in a group forum, face to face.

I don't like being forced to do anything. I especially do not like the idea of being forced to buy something (in this case the SawStop technology) that I don't believe I NEED.

However, Gass has built and is selling the SawStop with all of his technology incorporated. You indicate that he has failed to do this (successfully)because his saw is too expense. That is inconsistent with what I believe I have witnessed. There are many people on various forums who report that they have the SawStop and like it.

Dusty
Oh they are for sale and I'm sure some people are buying it. As I said before there are people that have more money than brains.

But I have talked to a number of sales people in the industry that tell me they ain't selling enough to pay for the floor space.

I think the biggest number have been sold to schools for shop programs and in smaller cabinet shops where the insurance company dictated it. We all know the status of most shop classes in most public school systems so if you depend on them for business you are going to go broke. And with the building crunch most cabinet shops that are faced with the decision are going other directions or closing.

I don't have any idea how many they have sold but I don't beleive they have outsold Ridgid's saws and they were pulled because the Home Depot floor space was worth more than they were selling.

Ed in Tampa wrote:Dusty
Oh they are for sale and I'm sure some people are buying it. As I said before there are people that have more money than brains.

But I have talked to a number of sales people in the industry that tell me they ain't selling enough to pay for the floor space.

I think the biggest number have been sold to schools for shop programs and in smaller cabinet shops where the insurance company dictated it. We all know the status of most shop classes in most public school systems so if you depend on them for business you are going to go broke. And with the building crunch most cabinet shops that are faced with the decision are going other directions or closing.

I don't have any idea how many they have sold but I don't beleive they have outsold Ridgid's saws and they were pulled because the Home Depot floor space was worth more than they were selling.

My belief that SawStop is gaining popularity is based on the number of user comments on forums like sawmillcreek and lumberjocks.

An analysis of sales, during these tough financial times, is not a fair assessment either. Many users that might be potential owners are simply not buying anything. Now maybe you, with your insight into the real world, know better what cabinet shop owners are doing than I but that is my impression.

Just like the PowerPro, some are selling but I don't believe as many as would be if times were better.

Ed in Tampa wrote: I don't have any idea how many they have sold but I don't beleive they have outsold Ridgid's saws and they were pulled because the Home Depot floor space was worth more than they were selling.

Hi Ed:
I think that the TS-3650 was doing well for HD. It is a really nice saw for the money and I fell in love with that fence the minute I touched it I have been really pleased with it all the way from assembly on. Two of Diana's' brothers bought one as did a BIL all about the same time that I bought mine. Then for some reason that I am unaware of, they quit selling it and started stocking the Granite top model with what I felt was a rather cheesy fence that I did not like the feel of at all. Toss your magnetic feather board on that top... I also don't recall it having the extension wings (not sure there). I was so put off by the fence that I walked away. I don't understand the granite top. This thing is for sawing wood not making fudge...

I do read of guys on LJ buying Saw Stops but if I am reading things right most of them are woodworking newbys or nearly so.
I don't expect to be buying a Saw Stop saw but then again there are a lot of things that I don't expect to be buying.

Another angle on the safety thing... I don't want a serious injury or amputation but I am unaware of any fatalities from a table saw. I suppose there have been some but very very rarely. If we are going to dump resources into something lets start with the stuff that is killing people like drunk drivers (that the lawyers keep getting off)... Or lets dump that money into cancer research...

I walked on ice all week this week and I am not even certified for that.

Yeah, I am becoming a cynic...


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judaspre1982 wrote:Best quote of the day.

You could make a t-shirt with that:D

Dave

I do not understand what they contribute to ice cream either!

dickg1 wrote:JPG,

I certainly agree with your point re: ". . . cramming his solution . . ., etc."
If the inventor allowed his product to demonstrate its effectiveness rather than attempting to have it mandated, I would feel he had a motive other than financial.

On your first point regarding seat belts - as an Air Force pilot flying multiengine aircraft, I in no way felt that the seat and shoulder harness that I wore restricted my movement. To the contrary, the harness supported me so that I could continue to control the aircraft. I installed seat belts in a car when it was a joke to do so because I felt that the restraint was a benefit. So I do disagree with you on that point.

Dick

I would like to be able to say the same thing about my cockpit, but that just is not an accurate description of the way things are. I am referring to sudden, fast movements that may be needed to avoid crash.

Speaking of aircraft restraints, way back when I was barely a teenager a friend of mine had an uncle that was a crop duster. Took us up in a 'waco' IIRC. Think biplane like a stearman(only older). His uncle was in the rear seat(hole) and the two of us were in the front. A single leather 3-4" strap across the seat with both of us 'under' it. I did not particularly like that arrangement(I knew what flight patterns those flying machines were capable of). No acrobatics, but did become aprehensive when he shut the engine off so he could ask us if we were ok.(I saw what he had to do to start it on the ground-"manual start"). Them were the 'good old days'.

robinson46176 wrote:Hi Ed:
I think that the TS-3650 was doing well for HD. It is a really nice saw for the money and I fell in love with that fence the minute I touched it I have been really pleased with it all the way from assembly on. Two of Diana's' brothers bought one as did a BIL all about the same time that I bought mine. Then for some reason that I am unaware of, they quit selling it and started stocking the Granite top model with what I felt was a rather cheesy fence that I did not like the feel of at all. Toss your magnetic feather board on that top... I also don't recall it having the extension wings (not sure there). I was so put off by the fence that I walked away. I don't understand the granite top. This thing is for sawing wood not making fudge...

I do read of guys on LJ buying Saw Stops but if I am reading things right most of them are woodworking newbys or nearly so.
I don't expect to be buying a Saw Stop saw but then again there are a lot of things that I don't expect to be buying.

Another angle on the safety thing... I don't want a serious injury or amputation but I am unaware of any fatalities from a table saw. I suppose there have been some but very very rarely. If we are going to dump resources into something lets start with the stuff that is killing people like drunk drivers (that the lawyers keep getting off)... Or lets dump that money into cancer research...

I walked on ice all week this week and I am not even certified for that.

Yeah, I am becoming a cynic...


.

I agree the 3650 was a really nice saw, but after awhile they weren't selling. So Ridgid came up with the idea they needed a enclosed Hybred saw and granite top model was a cheap answer.

They simply didn't sell plus they had granite top problems. It seems the forklift guys at the HD learned how to defeat the careful packaging.

They have since gone back to a cast iron table hybred saw but sale projections were low enough that HD won't stock them, they are only special order and most people in HD don't know anything about them. My stores don't even exhibit a price.

And Dusty you are right in this economy big ticket items like saws aren't selling. But seriously do you think a serious woodworker is going to pay more for a sawstop than he can buy a really nicely outfitted Unisaw or Powermatic table saw?

They schools are being forced to get them if they want a tablesaw but as we all have be complaining about school shop classes are going away.

Cabinet shops that aren't using power feeders are being forced toward Sawstop by insurance companies but some are converting to power feeds, some to guided rail saws and some are giving up because of the cost of insurance.

However I you are right I don't know Sawstops bottom line financially and frankly I'm surprized they lasted this long. Perhaps they are making a killing and I don't know it.

But I would still love to see the Hot Dog demo with someone slapping the hot dog into the saw blade simulating an accident where the hand in thrown into the blade. I will bet the hot dog would lose a digit.