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Posted: Tue May 03, 2011 5:18 pm
by SDSSmith
joedw00 wrote:Here is one on
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I just don't see it for me......that tool looks just too scary. I get to see the blade spinning at me in two places instead of one.
Posted: Tue May 03, 2011 6:38 pm
by damagi
jm51 wrote:Drive shafts for front wheel drive cars have a uv joint at each end...
One silly idea I had was to mount the SS on a seesaw. Tilt the table, then tilt the seesaw so that the table is once again horizontal, clamp up the seesaw.
I saw a shopnotes type thing from a 10er with someone doing this...must have been on the yahoo group
Posted: Tue May 03, 2011 10:28 pm
by swampgator
Like Cincinati said earlier, I have no problem with the tilting table as I use if often for making molding for picture frames and pieces for making toy cars and airplanes.
But, engineering a tilting motor and arbor could be a rather simple engineering change in the powerhead. Change the head enough to allow it to tilt inside the way tubes. It could still perform as it does today, but then the user would have to move the table to sit correctly over the tilted blade. Have another locking mechanism such as the powerhead lock that would allow the powerhead to tip. This would be just another adjustment to squaring the blade, again. Like someone else said, tilt it like a seesaw. This may require putting the way tubes a bit further apart to accomodate the wider powerhead. JMHO
Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 8:21 am
by pennview
Good thinking, Steve. Radial Arm Saw motors do exactly that, fitting a motor inside a yoke to allow for pivoting. Other possibilities include hydraulic or pneumatic motors, similar to what the Amish and some Mennonites use instead of electric motors on their tools, but they drive them with diesel engines. Also, Sears sold a contractor style saw a few years back that used a flexible shaft to drive the saw blade instead of a belt and pulley, but I don't think it held up very well though. And there were some combination machines around back when that used a single motor that was moved from position to position in order to operate different functions of the tool. Being backward compatible as Shopsmith has chosen means some changes just aren't in the cards. I wonder where we'd be today if they hadn't switched to the Mark V from the 10ER. In my view, the saw function on the Shopsmith is it's weak link and a tilting arbor version would enhance its acceptance.
Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 9:01 am
by dusty
If you are going to maintain the concept of a 5in1 wood working machine, you must concentrate on a lot more than just how to tilt the blade while leaving the table horizontal.
Tilting the blade (arbor) is not a new concept.
The concept of five different functions being wrapped into one single machine (that takes up very little space) is the unique characteristic of the Mark V/5. It is also what makes the task of change very difficult.
EXAMPLE: I set out to improve dust collection and I accomplished that. What I came up with worked great until I wanted to tilt the table to cut a bevel. My design conflicted and I had to abandon it (except for when using the saw in horizontal mode).
Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 9:32 am
by pennview
The concept of five different functions being wrapped into one single machine (that takes up very little space) is the unique characteristic of the Mark V/5. It is also what makes the task of change very difficult.
Exactly, and why not enhance the set-up by having a tilting arbor? I'd much rather have an arbor that tilts than one that turns at 10,000 RPM. I've got a router that does that at much less cost. The low speed feature of the power pro has some merit, but frankly unless I was drilling 3" holes all day long, it isn't all that appealing at the going price.
The saw is the key machine in my woodworking. If I didn't ever tilt the Shopsmith table, I wouldn't care that arbor doesn't tilt. But I do, and that's why I have a table saw in addition to the Shopsmith.
As far as improving dust collection on the Shopsmith when sawing, I'd expect a shroud attached to the table would enhance the ability to collect dust more effectively. Unfortunately, this would complicate the set-up procedure and then tilting the table is another matter entirely.
This is simply my opinion regarding a Shopsmith having had one for a bit over 30 years now. I'm not trying to convert anyone here, it's just how I view it.
Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 10:57 am
by Ed in Tampa
pennview wrote: In my view, the saw function on the Shopsmith is it's weak link and a tilting arbor version would enhance its acceptance.
Pennview
I don't think many will really argue that point with you. I hate the fact the table height must be adjusted for depth of cut. Makes it impossible to build an infeed and outfeed table like I want.(though there many really nice designed ones for the SS).
The missing tilting arbor is another negative as is aluminum table top, non standard mitre guage slot and as many people complain total dust collection.
I love my SS but I also know it is a compromise, but it is a good compromise. The problem is some people refuse to accept the fact that it is a compromise and try to argue that is all things to all woodworkers.
Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 11:21 am
by dusty
Ed in Tampa wrote:Pennview
I don't think many will really argue that point with you. I hate the fact the table height must be adjusted for depth of cut. Makes it impossible to build an infeed and outfeed table like I want.(though there many really nice designed ones for the SS).
The missing tilting arbor is another negative as is aluminum table top, non standard mitre guage slot and as many people complain total dust collection.
I love my SS but I also know it is a compromise, but it is a good compromise. The problem is some people refuse to accept the fact that it is a compromise and try to argue that is all things to all woodworkers.
Yup, some people may argue that it is all things to all wood workers. I do not. I accept that the Mark V has some shortcomings. I am just thankful that I must satisfy the needs of only a couple wood workers - myself being the most demanding. Fortunately, I have resolved ALL of the PRESSING issues and am content to use it and play with it as it is (tilting table and all).
No - I would still like to resolve the dust collection issue in a more effective way than I have. I doubt, however, that I will ever complete that task.
Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 11:31 am
by dusty
pennview wrote:Exactly, and why not enhance the set-up by having a tilting arbor? I'd much rather have an arbor that tilts than one that turns at 10,000 RPM. I've got a router that does that at much less cost. The low speed feature of the power pro has some merit, but frankly unless I was drilling 3" holes all day long, it isn't all that appealing at the going price.
The saw is the key machine in my woodworking. If I didn't ever tilt the Shopsmith table, I wouldn't care that arbor doesn't tilt. But I do, and that's why I have a table saw in addition to the Shopsmith.
As far as improving dust collection on the Shopsmith when sawing, I'd expect a shroud attached to the table would enhance the ability to collect dust more effectively. Unfortunately, this would complicate the set-up procedure and then tilting the table is another matter entirely.
This is simply my opinion regarding a Shopsmith having had one for a bit over 30 years now. I'm not trying to convert anyone here, it's just how I view it.
I believe, Art, that you have the ideal solution to your needs in the shop. Since you dislike the tilting table feature of the Mark V all that much - you should not use the tilting table.
Use your table saw. Adjust that arbor up and down and back and forth to your hearts content. That is exactly what I would do if 1) I had the space and 2) I had the money.
My ideal shop would be built around a Delta Unisaw with a permanent table, the size of a football field, built all around it.
When I have sheet goods to cut, they would lay up on the table waiting and the cut offs would do the same. Just lay there.
Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 1:13 pm
by Ed in Tampa
dusty wrote:My ideal shop would be built around a Delta Unisaw with a permanent table, the size of a football field, built all around it.
When I have sheet goods to cut, they would lay up on the table waiting and the cut offs would do the same. Just lay there.
Now see that is where Woodworkers differ. I would love to have a permanent table, the size of a football field but I would never never cut sheet good on it. I have been in too many cabinet shops that have tables the size of an air craft carrier and saw what happened when people cut sheet goods on them.
There are just too many really good alternatives to cutting sheet goods that don't require horsing a whole sheet of the product around.
What would I use the huge table for? The obvious use catch ripped boards but also for setup and construction.
For sheet goods if the money was avail I would get a panel saw, but short of that and probably $30,000 cheaper is a guided tool system where you lay a guide down on the sheet and cut. Many of the systems produce a cut edge so smooth no further sanding or cut improvement work is required.
One company did a comparison between cutting on a saw and using a guide tool system. The guided tools systen produced the same results as a the saw with far fewer cuts. Also the tablesaw required the user to lift the full sheet of material once and pick up the equalivant in weight many times to make the cuts where the guided saw system user never lifted anything heavier than the finished cut piece. The comparison proved it required less cut hence less time, less energy and produced superior results using the guided saw system compared to a tablesaw.