CFLs and utility lights

JPG · Post by **JPG** » Sun Oct 16, 2011 3:45 pm

pennview wrote:Distributed by OSRAM SYLVANIA Inc., 835 Washington Road, St. Marys, PA 15857-3699 -- Made in USA

I was surprised to see that they were made in the U.S. Next time I'm at the Walmart, I think I'll be stocking up.

As a side note, Osram/Sylvania no longer produces fluorescent tubes here at its nearby plant. LEDs of all things!

athomas01 · Post by **athomas01** » Mon Oct 17, 2011 1:07 am

Well now... finally a topic I know something about!

OK... first things first... Incandescent lamps as we know them will be phased out... however, there will be Halogen versions of them available for long time to come... there is some smoke and mirrors going on however... the new Halogen lamps designed to replace and henceforth marketed as a replacement for a 100 lamp is an overstatement... a standard 100 lamp produces 1720 lumens and the new halogen 72 watt replacement are aprox 1400 lumens... (a standard 75 watt is aprox 1200 lumens)... but at least you will get at least twice the lamp life from the new halogen lamps as well.

All florescent lamps actually turn off and on several times a second depending on ballast technology. At 60hz with a magnetic ballast, they turn off and on 120 times a second... but with the newer electronic ballasts, that number jumps to 20k to 30K per second... making it impossible for people to "see" the flicker.

Normal incandescent lamps run from 2700 to 2950 degrees Kelvin temperature (correlated color temperature in degrees Kelvin) , so if you are looking to replace your incandescent lamps with CFL's that is where you want to be to have the same "tone"... also minimum CRI (Color Rendering Index) values in mid 80's or better! In shops/ garages, etc where you may want lighting more like "daylight" I suggest you look at 4100 to 5000 degree K lamps... with CRI values in mid 80's as well.

Side note... in working in area with no natural light or no light from incandescent lamps then be careful around machinery... You can get machinery spinning in sync with the cycles of the lghting and it can appear to be not moving (much like a timing light)... for this reason, you will see lighting in large shops/plants on different phases so the are not cycling on/off at the same time...

As for LED's that will be the lighting of the future... some huge advancements have been made by the majors.. but there is so much junk out on the market... I was a judge for the "Lighting for Tomorrow" completion... hundreds of submitted products were gathered at University of California Davis's Lighting Technology Center (UC Davis) for us to review... only 6 items were given top honers by the panel... so that gives you an idea of the sub standard products on the market... but it will be the future....

I'll shut up before I bore everyone to death... but I could go on for hours... LOL

Ed in Tampa · Post by **Ed in Tampa** » Mon Oct 17, 2011 11:47 am

athomas01 wrote:Well now... finally a topic I know something about!

OK... first things first... Incandescent lamps as we know them will be phased out... however, there will be Halogen versions of them available for long time to come... there is some smoke and mirrors going on however... the new Halogen lamps designed to replace and henceforth marketed as a replacement for a 100 lamp is an overstatement... a standard 100 lamp produces 1720 lumens and the new halogen 72 watt replacement are aprox 1400 lumens... (a standard 75 watt is aprox 1200 lumens)... but at least you will get at least twice the lamp life from the new halogen lamps as well.

All florescent lamps actually turn off and on several times a second depending on ballast technology. At 60hz with a magnetic ballast, they turn off and on 120 times a second... but with the newer electronic ballasts, that number jumps to 20k to 30K per second... making it impossible for people to "see" the flicker.

Normal incandescent lamps run from 2700 to 2950 degrees Kelvin temperature (correlated color temperature in degrees Kelvin) , so if you are looking to replace your incandescent lamps with CFL's that is where you want to be to have the same "tone"... also minimum CRI (Color Rendering Index) values in mid 80's or better! In shops/ garages, etc where you may want lighting more like "daylight" I suggest you look at 4100 to 5000 degree K lamps... with CRI values in mid 80's as well.

Side note... in working in area with no natural light or no light from incandescent lamps then be careful around machinery... You can get machinery spinning in sync with the cycles of the lghting and it can appear to be not moving (much like a timing light)... for this reason, you will see lighting in large shops/plants on different phases so the are not cycling on/off at the same time...

As for LED's that will be the lighting of the future... some huge advancements have been made by the majors.. but there is so much junk out on the market... I was a judge for the "Lighting for Tomorrow" completion... hundreds of submitted products were gathered at University of California Davis's Lighting Technology Center (UC Davis) for us to review... only 6 items were given top honers by the panel... so that gives you an idea of the sub standard products on the market... but it will be the future....

I'll shut up before I bore everyone to death... but I could go on for hours... LOL

If you are our resident expert let me ask some questions.

Isn't the biggest drawback on halogen the heat?

Why do enclosed CFI bulbs have a warm up where they start out dim and get brighter but non enclosed CFI come on instantly?

If the new ballast is use where the flicker at 30,000 cycles is there still a chance of the strobe effect for normal machinery? I would guess a machine running at or near 30,000 Rpm would strobe.

Do you know why if Lumes is the only really definitive method or judge a bulbs output why manufactures aren't required to list it? I'm seeing CFl lights saying equalvant to 60 watt but included are bulbs with range of luments between 600-800

JPG · Post by **JPG** » Mon Oct 17, 2011 12:10 pm

Ed in Tampa wrote: . . . I'm seeing CFl lights saying equalvant to 60 watt but included are bulbs with range of luments between 600-800

'60 Watt' incandescent light bulbs lumen rating varies.

Only thing '60 Watt' about the incandescent bulb is its power consumption(also a variant).

mountainbreeze · Post by **mountainbreeze** » Mon Oct 17, 2011 12:46 pm

Just curious about what others have experienced relative to the "life" of a CFL. I started using them about 2 years ago and purchased CFLs saying they would last over 4 years under "normal use". Since then, I have had to replace 2 of them that are used far less than "normal" (3 to 4 hours per week).

JPG · Post by **JPG** » Mon Oct 17, 2011 12:56 pm

mountainbreeze wrote:Just curious about what others have experienced relative to the "life" of a CFL. I started using them about 2 years ago and purchased CFLs saying they would last over 4 years under "normal use". Since then, I have had to replace 2 of them that are used far less than "normal" (3 to 4 hours per week).

I have had good experience with those that are left on continuously.

I have also had one that lasted for three on/off cycles, and another that zapped the first turn on!

The ones obtained recently I believe are more reliable.

heathicus · Post by **heathicus** » Mon Oct 17, 2011 3:25 pm

Ed in Tampa wrote:If you are our resident expert let me ask some questions.

The only question I have is what makes Congress think they know so much better than me about what kind of light bulbs I should buy?

But I guess that's a question for another place...

(still really irks me, though)

beeg · Post by **beeg** » Mon Oct 17, 2011 4:10 pm

heathicus wrote:The only question I have is what makes Congress think they know so much better than me about what kind of light bulbs I should buy?

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The way I understand it, it's an energy saving move.

athomas01 · Post by **athomas01** » Mon Oct 17, 2011 5:21 pm

Ed in Tampa wrote:If you are our resident expert let me ask some questions.

Now.. I didn't say I was the resident expert... I just said finally something I know about....

Ed in Tampa wrote:Isn't the biggest drawback on halogen the heat?

Good question! Halogens operate at much higher temperature to create the halogen cycle... which in simple terms, redeposits the tungsten that evaporates off the filament back onto the filament... there by extending lamp life. but, if you notice, the halogen capsule or lamp is very small and being the lamp walls are so close the the filament, it burns hotter, BUT DOES NOT EMIT MORE HEAT than the equivalent incandescent lamp... would be much like holding your hand 1 inch off a burner would be much hotter than 6 inches off the burner... but in both cases, the same amount of heat is emitted into the room.

Ed in Tampa wrote:Why do enclosed CFI bulbs have a warm up where they start out dim and get brighter but non enclosed CFI come on instantly?

It all depends on the ballast technology... but most all florescent lamps of some degree of warm up, just some are a lot more visible than others... Screw in med based self ballasted lamps will generally take longer than lamps in dedicated fixture with good electronic ballasts...

Ed in Tampa wrote:If the new ballast is use where the flicker at 30,000 cycles is there still a chance of the strobe effect for normal machinery? I would guess a machine running at or near 30,000 Rpm would strobe.

Yes... depending on cycle of the lamp.

Ed in Tampa wrote:Do you know why if Lumens is the only really definitive method or judge a bulbs output why manufactures aren't required to list it? I'm seeing CFl lights saying equalvant to 60 watt but included are bulbs with range of luments between 600-800

According to EPAct (Energy Policy Act of 1992) all lamp manufacturers are required to have in place Lumen output ratings on retail packaging of all lamps in as big of letters as the wattage... I think the effect date was something link 1996 or such... can't remember..

but to your point, you will very often find "equivalent" claims to some wattage lamps that are not very accurate... in your example, most better 60 watt standard incandescent lamps are approx 860 lumens... but somewhere in the world someone makes a 60 watt lamp that is only rated at 600 lumens so they can say it is "equivalent" to that 60 watt bulb...

athomas01 · Post by **athomas01** » Mon Oct 17, 2011 5:26 pm

mountainbreeze wrote:Just curious about what others have experienced relative to the "life" of a CFL. I started using them about 2 years ago and purchased CFLs saying they would last over 4 years under "normal use". Since then, I have had to replace 2 of them that are used far less than "normal" (3 to 4 hours per week).

Average rated life is a function of large sample of lamps turn on and off at predetermined intervals... for florescent, typically 3 or 4 hours... at which point 50% have failed and 50% are working... that is average rated life... BTW, that also indicates you have "X" numbers of starts before the lamp fails... so if you have them in a application where the lamps have high cycles of on/off to every hour burned... they will have significantly shorter lamp life.