Shopsmith Forums

Josh, I was in complete agreement with you right up until the last sentence. What do you mean by "real cuts" but leaving out " entitlements" ? I'm sorry, my friend, that is impossible. Just look at the portion of our budget spent on these entitlements. Sure we can trim around the edges but that would have virtually no affect on our deficit/debt problem.

We are wasting our time arguing over whether the blame rests with Bush or Obama. If you want to blame a president, start with Wilson, FDR and Johnson. We starting running towards the"cliff" decades ago. Both Bush and Obama (and Congress) have simply accelerated the process.

major_bob wrote:Josh, I was in complete agreement with you right up until the last sentence. What do you mean by "real cuts" but leaving out " entitlements" ? I'm sorry, my friend, that is impossible.

I was talking about laying off congressmen, but didn't really type that thought all the way out

joshh wrote:According to the CBO fiscal years trail actual years by 1. Bush's budgets were 2002 - 2009 and Obama's are 2010 - 2017. You are correct that our national debt was 10.6 trillion when Obama took office. If we continued spending at the same spending as Bush's last budget year we would have the following national debt:

Jan 31, 2010: 12.03 Trillion
Jan 31, 2011: 13.46 Trillion
Jan 31, 2011: 14.89 Trillion
Jan 31, 2012: 16.32 Trillion
Jan 31, 2013: 17.75 Trillion
This is compared to 16.4 Trillion that we actually have right now. His deficit has never reached Bush's high of 1.43 Trillion.

I do know that the president doesn't control spending. Instead of a comprehensive budget, we have all these stopgap bills and "cliff" talks. This way each side can kick the can a few months. Then each year house submits rediculous budgets they know won't pass and don't actually want to pass. They know the senate won't ever vote for them, but it allows them to say, "no budget in 4 years". In addition, the house took Obama's budget proposal and butchered it then said, "his budget got zero votes" but neglect to say it wasn't really his budget...he cant legally submit a budget (only the house can do that). it is a mock-up, scam, whatever you want to call it. I don't think anyone honestly believes if it was really his budget, that he couldn't get a single democrat to go along with it.

Please don't confuse my intentions, I didn't vote for Obama and disagree with a lot that he has done. I simply want people to realize the debt would be the roughly the same with or without him and the insane debt we have is a result of both parties. When voters each blame the other side, the politicians win and are able to keep spending our money. These "fiscal cliff" talks and all the cuts they want won't even begin to touch our debt. We need real cuts and I'm not talking about "entitlements". Everyone hates congress, yet keep voting for the same people over and over. It boggles the mind...

Since Congress owns the budget you need to look at what party owned Congress when the budget was passed and if you do that, you will find that our fiscal issues can be blamed directly on the Democrats, the only balanced budgets we have had in recent memory were when Republicans owned Congress. That said both parties spend, Democrats just spend faster and when Democrats own all three branches of government spending gets out of control. The reason the Democratically controlled Senate has not passed a budget in 1000 days even though they are required to by law is it would show just how bad things are, the last budget was passed when Democrats owned all three branches of government. When Republicans in the House pass a realistic budget they are demonized.

Also you don't vote for Congress, you vote for your Congress person. People hate "Congress" but love what their Congress person promises to give them or do.

(I just couldn't resist!)


To the citizens of the United States of America from Her Sovereign Majesty Queen Elizabeth II

In light of your failure in recent years to nominate competent candidates for President of the USA and thus to govern yourselves, we hereby give notice of the revocation of your independence, effective immediately.

(You should look up 'revocation' in the Oxford English Dictionary.)

Her Sovereign Majesty Queen Elizabeth II will resume monarchical duties over all states, commonwealths, and territories (except Kansas, which she does not fancy).

Your new Prime Minister, Gordon Brown, will appoint a Governor for America without the need for further elections.

Congress and the Senate will be disbanded. A questionnaire may be circulated next year to determine whether any of you noticed.

To aid in the transition to a British Crown dependency, the following rules are introduced with immediate effect:

1. The letter 'U' will be reinstated in words such as 'colour,' 'favour,' 'labour' and 'neighbour.' Likewise, you will learn to spell 'doughnut' without skipping half the letters, and the suffix '-ize' will be replaced by the suffix '-ise.' Generally, you will be expected to raise your vocabulary to acceptable levels. (look up 'vocabulary').

2. Using the same twenty-seven words interspersed with filler noises such as ''like' and 'you know' is an unacceptable and inefficient form of communication. There is no such thing as U.S. English. We will let Microsoft know on your behalf. The Microsoft spell-checker will be adjusted to take into account the reinstated letter 'u'' and the elimination of '-ize.'

3. July 4th will no longer be celebrated as a holiday.

4. You will learn to resolve personal issues without using guns, lawyers, or therapists. The fact that you need so many lawyers and therapists shows that you're not quite ready to be independent. Guns should only be used for shooting grouse. If you can't sort things out without suing someone or speaking to a therapist, then you're not ready to shoot grouse.

5. Therefore, you will no longer be allowed to own or carry anything more dangerous than a vegetable peeler. Although a permit will be required if you wish to carry a vegetable peeler in public.
6. All intersections will be replaced with roundabouts, and you will start driving on the left side with immediate effect. At the same time, you will go metric with immediate effect and without the benefit of conversion tables. Both roundabouts and metrication will help you understand the British sense of humour.

7. The former USA will adopt UK prices on petrol (which you have been calling gasoline) of roughly $10/US gallon. Get used to it.

8. You will learn to make real chips. Those things you call French fries are not real chips, and those things you insist on calling potato chips are properly called crisps. Real chips are thick cut, fried in animal fat, and dressed not with catsup but with vinegar.

9. The cold, tasteless stuff you insist on calling beer is not actually beer at all. Henceforth, only proper British Bitter will be referred to as beer, and European brews of known and accepted provenance will be referred to as Lager. South African beer is also acceptable, as they are pound for pound the greatest sporting nation on earth and it can only be due to the beer. They are also part of the British Commonwealth - see what it did for them. American brands will be referred to as Near-Frozen Gnat's Urine, so that all can be sold without risk of further confusion.

10. Hollywood will be required occasionally to cast English actors as good guys. Hollywood will also be required to cast English actors to play English characters. Watching Andie Macdowell attempt English dialogue in Four Weddings and a Funeral was an experience akin to having one's ears removed with a cheese grater.

11. You will cease playing American football. There is only one kind of proper football; you call it soccer. Those of you brave enough will, in time, be allowed to play rugby (which has some similarities to American football, but does not involve stopping for a rest every twenty seconds or wearing full kevlar body armour like a bunch of nancies).

12. Further, you will stop playing baseball. It is not reasonable to host an event called the World Series for a game which is not played outside of America. Since only 2.1% of you are aware there is a world beyond your borders, your error is understandable. You will learn cricket, and we will let you face the South Africans first to take the sting out of their deliveries.

13. You must tell us who killed JFK. It's been driving us mad.

14. An internal revenue agent (i.e. tax collector) from Her Majesty's Government will be with you shortly to ensure the acquisition of all monies due (backdated to 1776).

15. Daily Tea Time begins promptly at 4 p.m. with proper cups, with saucers, and never mugs, with high quality biscuits (cookies) and cakes; plus strawberries (with cream) when in season.

God Save the Queen!



Derek... in CANADA:D

derekdarling wrote:(I just couldn't resist!)


To the citizens of the United States of America from Her Sovereign Majesty Queen Elizabeth II

In light of your failure in recent years to nominate competent candidates for President of the USA and thus to govern yourselves, we hereby give notice of the revocation of your independence, effective immediately.
(snip)

God Save the Queen!



Derek... in CANADA:D

Derek, thank you. I'm afraid, however, that China has beaten Great Britain to the punch. China now has controlling interest in the interest (yes pun intended) of the United States of America by purchasing artificial money sometimes referred to as Treasury Notes. One Mr. Geitner continues to print them on the company laser printer while an autocrat named Bernanke misleads various entities regarding their worthiness.

If Great Britain is truly interested, here is the danger that China may lose political control (or gain it absolutely) because of a recent ruling by a group of disillusional lawyers sometimes referred to as the Supreme Court. This "court" for lack of a more accurate term supposedly functions in the same fashion as the UK Supreme Court but unlike the UK SC which forces retirement at 75, the US SC allows the addle brained and mentally infirmed to stay for life. Anyway, for some reason unknown to those with any common sense, these lawyers decided that any big business could purchase any political position by changing the 1st Amendment of the Constitution regarding free speech to mean that the company with the most money gets to yell the loudest and longest, thereby drowning out those who have less financial means.

Please thank the Queen for her interest, but unless she plans to take out a huge loan form Germany (which "they" will make her pay back - promptly), I doubt that she will win a bidding war with China.

The issue is spending, spending, spending and Obama is the biggest spender yet!

Derek, Thanks for making my day

Regarding the federal budget process, it is the President who starts the ball rolling with his "budget request" that is sent to congress outlining how much money he wants and how he will spend it for the next fiscal year. Congress, both houses, then decides what they want to appropriate, pass legislation, and send it back for the president's signature.

Here are the details -- http://www.cbpp.org/cms/?fa=view&id=155

The only thing I think I'll object to at this point is this:

They both spend our money like its free. The main difference is what they spend it on... War and tax-cuts vs infrastructure and pork.

Specifically the "tax-cuts." You don't "spend" money on tax cuts. Cutting taxes is NOT an "expense."

To accept that a "tax cut" is government "spending" is to accept the notion that all money belongs to the government and they "spend" it by letting us have some of it. By issuing tax cuts, they "spend" more by giving us more government money.

I believe that is a notion that must be soundly rejected. A tax cut means the government steals less of OUR money. And I also think we should reject the idea that only people with a certain income should or should not have less of their money stolen by the government.

Not to mention, when taxes are cut, government revenue rises because the tax cuts encourage more economic activity. Happens every time.

Re: SS increase and medicare increase.
The positive difference is enough for one stick of gum. With judicious chewing, maybe make the flavor last until next month when I can afford another stick.