Shopsmith Forums

disckg1 or anyone else more computer savvy than I (which is most of you):

Obviously, someone, somewhere knows more about my viewing habits than I would prefer. But I can't do anything about that unless I become a hermit.

However, just how correct are though statistics? For example, I routinely log onto the website from anyone of three different locations (different computers owned by my daughter or grandson and my own).

How many guest viewers are looky-lous and will never buy or use a Shopsmith. I am one one those on two or three other forums.

These logins originate from different IPs but it is me (just one person). Do I get credit for being three different people or is the system smarter than that?

I do login using the same user id.

I still believe the TA's to be a practical way of teaching woodworkers, especially those who have limited knowledge, what their system can do. If this appears to be a rant to you (it does to me after reading this), so be it.

BPR,
I agree with you 100%, but (always a but isn't there?) this was touched on in the last TA. According to a comment by Rick, the TA's are mostly a "self sustained entity". In other words, there has to be enough sales to finance the classes. So, no sellee no teachee. At least that's the way I got it.

dickg1 wrote:The "viewers number" is obtained using a program called "Google Analytics." I have observed that ShopSmith is using it. With this program, which requires just a few lines of code in your web site, you can determine the approximate location of the viewer, the time on site, the number of times that particular location has been on the site and time spent (down to individual page), repeats, and on and on. I use it on the web site that I maintain. It is a very valuable tool in evaluating the impact of your site and it's content.

Dickg1

Just spent about a half hour reading up on this.... interesting but it seems the finer details for getting these counts right deals with some "magic"... and it is a marketing tool, not know for their use of science. I see some people are just willing to use it, but others have questions, like me. I've been out of this loop for almost 8 years and really don't want to be in it. So how close do you think the 100,000 USERS number is?

Ed

reible wrote:Just spent about a half hour reading up on this.... interesting but it seems the finer details for getting these counts right deals with some "magic"... and it is a marketing tool, not know for their use of science. I see some people are just willing to use it, but others have questions, like me. I've been out of this loop for almost 8 years and really don't want to be in it. So how close do you think the 100,000 USERS number is?

Ed

Dusty and Ed,

Google Analytics is a marketing tool. In your case Dusty, it does not distinguish you as an individual. It would possibly log you in as three different viewers. One of the things it uses is the network you are using and the type (i.e. DSL, Cable, etc.) It also identifies your browser. So if you are viewing from three different locations, you are three different viewers.

Ed, look at USERS not as individual viewers. Using Analytics you can get a pretty good approximation of the number of viewers using some of the tools I mentioned in replying to Dusty's remarks. I regarded Nick's e-mail as a mark of some success with the Sawdust sessions, etc. What is important to ShopSmith is that they can also determine where their views are coming from, by city/town and state within a reasonable degree of accuracy, I could imagine (?) their ultimate goal may be where they may concentrate their marketing effort. You are right Ed, it's not magic or science - but it can help marketing.

Dickg1

8iowa wrote:In general, the high cost of travel, and our exploding internet technology, has put the traveling salesman occupation in a situation of obselence.

How true this statement is... When I first met my wife 6 years ago, my father-in-law traveled around the Iowa countryside selling farm equipment. Within the past 2 and a half years he had been laid off from 3 jobs because they weren't going to be doing the traveling salesmen anymore. When he went to look for another job, he was stuck. No one else was doing that sort of marketing anymore, and that's the same job that he has had for the past 40 years.

As to the computers/visitors question:

The accuracy is dependent upon your Internet Protocol (IP) address that your ISP assigns you. (In a low level manner it works like this: )

If you are a high-speed internet customer and leave your DSL/Cable modem on 24/7, then you will always have the same IP, thus whenever you visit the site from that computer you are listed as being a returning visitor. If, for some reason your modem is disconnected for a set time (this can range anywhere from 1 minute to over 2 weeks, usually for an ISP this is set low (about 30 minutes) to conserve on address usage (your ISP pays for every IP that is being used)), and your previous address was assigned to someone else then you will get a new IP and you will then be listed as a new visitor in the site logs.

If you are a dial-up customer (God bless you for your patience...), most every time you dial in you are assigned a new IP. Therefore every time you visit the site after a period of disconnection, you will be registered as a new viewer.

So those numbers do get a bit of "padding," but it isn't some sort of mystical mumbo-jumbo. There is a method to the madness.

I've also attached a report for the website for the company that I administrate (administer?). We're a small Rural Electric Cooperative in Central Iowa, so we don't get an awful lot of hits on our site, but you can get an idea of how it works. One of the keys, is the "% new visits" field. And also, as Dickg1 pointed out, you can see just how those addresses can be distinguished to area. The tool is handy to know exactly what type of hardware I should be needing for a webserver and what type of connection I should have for reliable viewing.

If you want to play around with what the world sees when you visit the internet (location (down to city), your operating system, your web browser, etc..) check out this site. Then you can use your IP (given at the top of the page under the site's menu bar), and plug into each of the tools. The fun ones are the "IP Information" and "What does a website know about you?"

Enjoy,
Guv

greitz wrote: I think there's a lot of us who do not participate in the live Sawdust Sessions because of (1) poor computer connections, (2) Saturday mornings aren't a good time

Once Shopsmith puts the recorded Sawdust Sessions up for sale in a DVD format

Gary

FWIW, those are my reasons exactly. I am still on dial-up at home, so I watch the Sawdust Sessions after they are archived over my high speed at work...(during the lunch hour only, of course.) I imagine there are many others in the same situation.

Like Gary, I will be surprised if, when the Sessions are made available on DVD, Shopsmith doesn't sell truckloads of them.

Ed
Idaho Panhandle
MkV 500 etc

I'd personally like to know if the sawdust sessions are available in some sort of downloadable form.. I can't watch any sort of streaming content at work anymore after they tightened up the firewall configuration and the videos won't play on my iPhone like the YouTube videos do (not the greatest to view but it works when you're bored sitting in the doctor's office or whatever).

I placed my first order w/ SS today for a few odds-n-ends and ordered the alignment/maint. DVD for $29.. I would have paid more $$ to get an assortment of the Sawdust Session videos bundled on a DVD if it were available.. (assuming the video quality is better than the YouTube videos I've seen).

As a newbie here, I already value the sawdust sessions.
I wouldn't be able to attend a Travelling Academy session for quite some time, another reason why I bought "The Shopsmith Journals". It fits into my time and budget constraints.
Once again, as a newbie, and a purchaser of a used Mark V these have been a great help in keeping me from becoming frustrated with the system in my Shopsmith Infancy.
Neighbors still tell me about demonstrations that they have seen at Home Depot and such, but I have never seen one in person.
I think the services provided are doing their job in keeping people like me interested in learning the machine, and teaching me which products to buy from the company for the future projects I intend to tackle.
In a couple of years when I'm out of school I'm sure to attend whatever training is available, and log on to the Saw Dust Sessions live.
Right now I have to watch them from the archives.
And check all the great advice on the forum.

dusty wrote:What I love about this country and about this forum is that we all get to have differing opinions without consequence.

With that, 8iowa, I disagree. Yes, I would like to see the Academy return for the benefit of those who could/would go to the academy. But, I believe that Shopsmith needs the results of the Traveling Academy - the up close and almost hands-on presentations.

How many people log on to Hands On Sawdust Sessions. Are there thirty or forty or even fifty different people who have been present for a Sawdust Session. Furthermore, they all have their Shopsmith equipped shops already. Not many new sales represented there. Certainly not enough to sustain the company.

I have watched every one of them, so far, and it seems to be the same group of people almost every time. Occasionally, a new name appears but that is not going to sustain the Shopsmith marketing effort.

I don't even see the forum membership strongly represented at the Sawdust Sessions. Again, I would love to have someone tell me I don't know what it is I am saying. Maybe all those people who don't log in and view as Guestxxxx are all different, new people each time. That would be great news.

Go ahead, somebody, anybody who has information to the contrary. I would really like to hear that the Sawdust Sessions are a booming success and that Shopsmith sales are on a constant increase ever since the "Nick and Drew" show hit the web. I would love to hear that because if I don't, The Nick and Drew Show will go the way of Laugh In and we won't have them or the TA.

OK. I am done. I'll be standing by to take the flack. But that is my story and I'm sticking to it.

Hi Dusty,

How is this for some flack:
I have been dying to use those, but never thought that I wood (sp) have the chance, given the nice folks here on this forum. So, since you opened the door........I thought I had better use all of them. Probably won't get another chance. No offence intended.

As far as continued TA's are concerned, does anyone on this forum think that it is fair to expect SS to provide these very helpful and educational seminars at the cheap, cheap cheap price that they charge, and not expect a return on the investment in the form of tool and supply sales???

I love the Sawdust Sessions. My wife wanted high speed (we had dial-up) and being able to watch them (I missed the first 8 or so), helped her convince me to get it.

I love the TA's. As others have pointed out, the in-person thing is invaluable (not to mention the discounted and freebie tools).

They are related, but separate things, as are the Rick Davis DVD's. I think that all of these promotional tools are valuable to SS, but only if they see dividends from their use. IMHO the recorded DVD's of the Sawdust Sessions will sell well too.

[quote="pinkiewerewolf"]
Neighbors still tell me about demonstrations that they have seen at Home Depot and such, but I have never seen one in person.
And check all the great advice on the forum.]

Pinkie, if you are ever down in Sonoma during the county fair, you MIGHT be able to see the SS guy. Unreal! While talking to you and smiling he band saws a rose for a lady. Very cool! Some fair deals too. But he wasn't here last year.....I'll let you know, come around July, if you can make it.