Shopsmith Forums

mediadaddy wrote:What you did not comprehend in my previous message is- as Americans the majority of us have an easy life. I know what physical hardship is- what it took to live- was provided not by the government but by ourselves. Try it sometime. I am very appreciative of the government and services it provides. The flush of the toilet,clean air and water,the light switch-that is to be very clear-the light comes on,your house doesn't burn down. Those who work for an employer are much safer,thanks to the government. Look for the positive. It is everywhere.
I'll add in advance of your response- I rarely mention this-I've had MS for forty years. From my childhood years to now, I am familiar with self-reliance. I am very grateful for the many opportunities the state and Federal government provide not only for the unfortunate,for everyone.
There lies some of the national debt,providing services to its people. Then there's the Department of Defense.

mediadaddy
America of the 60 and 70's was different than the America of the 40's and 50's and of 80's, 90's new millennial and now today.

Many of us didn't have flush toilets, electric lights and heat other than the fires we build with wood we cut or coal we hauled.

What discourages me is the attitude, fortitude and determination that moved this country ahead is waning. As I mentioned the "ask not what this country can do for you" attitude has been changed into "what is in it for me" or "how do I get it".

When I was a boy the last thing anyone wanted was to be on some public assistance program. Today people people scheme to get on them.

When I was a boy $100 dollars worth of stock meant you owned a $100 worth of the company. Today it means nothing and is worth only what you can get for it.

When I was a boy I understood we didn't have a TV because we could not afford it. Today people believe that not being able to afford something is no reason not to have it.

[quote="JPG40504"]Logical progression is not always an easy path to stay on.]
Logical is not the same as linear. Logical means follow the the meaning. Linear is follow the money.

JPG40504 wrote:Yep! Manufacturing(all kinds) was our strength. We have become a nation of bedroom communities and a service economy. Mostly consumption and little production.

What was unusual about that statement by Kennedy, was his political party affiliation.

This is a very common misperception, fueled by the mainstream media in their never-ending quest for more sensational "stories" to sell more advertisements. Those yo-yo's often report that manufacturing output has declined, when actually only the rate of growth has (temporarily) declined!

The truth is much more boring.

U.S. manufacturing output, in real dollars, has increased rather steadily since the 1950's. My company serves the manufacturing industry, and I regularly see manufacturing economic data from a variety of sources. Here is one such source. At the moment, U.S. manufacturing output is at roughly the all-time record.

What really drives the negativity in the popular media are the statistics on manufacturing employment. And yes, those numbers have been in steady decline for decades. Manufacturing productivity has increased so dramatically that far fewer workers are needed these days. Even so, manufacturers can't find enough workers with the right skills for their modern factory -- which is essentially programming and maintaining the computerized automation.

But to put this in perspective, the productivity gains in manufacturing, and the resulting social disruptions, have yet to equal those seen in the agricultural sector a century ago, when powerful machinery supplanted both human and animal labor.

Although disruptive to society, and downright painful to portions of the labor force, automation is the only way that U.S. companies can pay first-world wages and still be cost-competitive with low-labor-cost countries such as China. Technology enables higher productivity, but competition is what forces manufacturers to actually adopt it. Companies and industries that fail to do so will go the way of the U.S. textile manufacturers.

The U.S. has remained highly competitive in manufacturing sectors that are able to benefit from technology and capital equipment. And now, we are poised to benefit from our newfound status as a net energy exporter, which will give us a cost advantage on energy-intensive products.

Guess I need to be less dramatic.

As has already been pointed out all the dirty stuff has been sent elsewhere.

Gee I wonder why, since OSHA and EPA are not a contributing factor.

I would consider something other than a dollar based measure of 'output'.

Consider what is occurring today. Raw materials are shipped elsewhere. All those dirty operations are done elsewhere. Maybe the altering of those basic materials is done 'back here', but more likely will also be done 'over there' and assembled 'there' as well. Reason being it is cheaper to do so over there. Labor cost is a factor, lack of OSHA and EPA over there is a cost factor.

Sure there is an advantage to us consumers since we pay less for the finished product. I cannot say it is good for the future of the country long term.

I may have a simplistic view of all this, but I do think we have undermined one of our greater assets. Self sufficiency is IMHO a critical attribute to have. We are far less self sufficient that we were.

As 'over there' catches up economically, the advantage of supplying maritime shipping with all this stuff to transport will diminish. Hopefully by then we will still be able to go back to doing things 'ourselves'.


If we be high tech, why does Apple(and others) do their manufacturing 'over there'?

I think we still have(for the time being) an edge in the development of new applications/products. We just do not build them here. Small volume things are more likely to be done here, but high production seems to not be done here. Recently there has been a trend to bring some things back. Hopefully that will expand.